Net Zero is a MASSIVE tax money grab - what can be done?
Discussion
Pistom said:
Words stolen from another thread but sums up what many are feeling.
What can be done to stop our money being taken this way?
You can start the revolution, brother! What can be done to stop our money being taken this way?
Tell me when and where we're meeting, and I'll be right with you. I've spent all my money though, so in practice it'll mainly be moral support...
Tlandcruiser said:
Rufus Stone said:
Emigrate.
I’m leaving the U.K. in the next few years. I’ve never been so disheartened with life in the U.K. luckily, I can work in my profession abroad. I have a feeling that the politics of the 2020s particularly around the environmental issues, Net Zero and motoring will be looked at as an absolute disaster and the beginning of the end for environmental led policies.
Net Zero is a fudge, essentially off shoring carbon production at the expense of jobs and industry, and the consequences of fuel efficient homes (the cost) will see a sea change in the direction on politics.
The minority of vocal environmentalists are ruining the worlds in ways that they can’t even conceive.
It’s a cluster f
k that will work it’s way out when the actual st hits the actual fan. In about 10 years time.
Net Zero is a fudge, essentially off shoring carbon production at the expense of jobs and industry, and the consequences of fuel efficient homes (the cost) will see a sea change in the direction on politics.
The minority of vocal environmentalists are ruining the worlds in ways that they can’t even conceive.
It’s a cluster f
k that will work it’s way out when the actual st hits the actual fan. In about 10 years time.1. I don't see tax rates rising (yet?) as part of net zero
2. it will certainly cost us more money for what we're used to buying.
3. In the long run, it will certainly be much cheaper to reduce the effects of climate change than it will be to address them.
4. therefore we should act now, it will be cheaper. you all know this. Just as it's cheaper to fix a small leak in a roof than ignore it and then replace the whole roof, we need to mitigate now and start solving problems early.
5. Anyone wailing about is really just arguing that future generations should either deal with it, or pay for it. It's the ultimate example of selfish "not my problem" attitude.
2. it will certainly cost us more money for what we're used to buying.
3. In the long run, it will certainly be much cheaper to reduce the effects of climate change than it will be to address them.
4. therefore we should act now, it will be cheaper. you all know this. Just as it's cheaper to fix a small leak in a roof than ignore it and then replace the whole roof, we need to mitigate now and start solving problems early.
5. Anyone wailing about is really just arguing that future generations should either deal with it, or pay for it. It's the ultimate example of selfish "not my problem" attitude.
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Sunday 10th September 18:50
I do like the idea that governments create sham crises so they can tax and spend in order to avert the non-existent crises. Because clearly governments just like taxing and spending on random st. The fact that every government since the beginning of time tries to do things on an absolute shoestring budget that leads to half baked crap being delivered shouldn't in any way persuade us that the "it's a conspiracy so they can tax us" thesis is utterly demented.
t. The fact that every government since the beginning of time tries to do things on an absolute shoestring budget that leads to half baked crap being delivered shouldn't in any way persuade us that the "it's a conspiracy so they can tax us" thesis is utterly demented.Breaking the national lunacy that compels the vast majority of us to vote either Tory or Labour (mostly on the basis that they're not as bad as the other lot) every time there's an election would be a good start.Both parties are utterly wedded to this madness and won't change course. Anyone who did take that on has their work cut out. The media, lots of big business and huge swathes of the population take the whole business very seriously and anyone offering any serious opposition would be villified to probably an even greater extent than 'covid deniers' or Brexit supporters.
As with covid though, I'm convinced it is only superficially a scientific or political problem. At it's core it's a social and spiritual problem. The ideas that underpin fanatical environmentalism fill the vaccuum left by abandoning Christianity (and to a lesser extent other religions). It takes the idea that man has dominion over nature and makes us a bad master. It gives us the original sin of destroying God's creation for our own wealth and gratification. The guilt for wealth and abundance. It gives us the impending doom of a judgement day. A tipping point where it will be too late, and the world will become a burning hell. And it gives us a purpose in preventing all this through sacrifice and ritual. A justification for paying tithes and giving unto Caesar. Following the new clergy of supposed experts with their dazzlingly accurate (and utterly nonsensical) predictions of famine, pestillence, war and death.
The fact that none of this really stands up to logical scrutiny is neither here nor there. The fact that even on their own predictions, the consequences of climate change in no conceivable way justify the means proposed to stop it matters not one jot. Nor is the fact that many of the measures will make the problems they claim to be solving much worse.
Those logical arguments only work against a position that is somewhat logical to begin with. They'll no more dissuade a committed environmentalist than they will a religious fanatic.
My own take on it is that we rather hastily abandoned the old belief systems without thinking through what would replace them. Perhaps in the hope that if we dismantled God then we would all become rational humanists guided by evidence and reason alone. In fact we have stayed as medieval peasants guided by a different clergy, serving different lords and worshipping a different God.
You could make an argument that better education would strengthen people's critical faculties, but that doesn't solve the problem of who is providing the education. People don't have the time or inclination to look into these things. They think if so many politicians, scientists, celebrities and David Attenborough say something then it must be true.
As with covid though, I'm convinced it is only superficially a scientific or political problem. At it's core it's a social and spiritual problem. The ideas that underpin fanatical environmentalism fill the vaccuum left by abandoning Christianity (and to a lesser extent other religions). It takes the idea that man has dominion over nature and makes us a bad master. It gives us the original sin of destroying God's creation for our own wealth and gratification. The guilt for wealth and abundance. It gives us the impending doom of a judgement day. A tipping point where it will be too late, and the world will become a burning hell. And it gives us a purpose in preventing all this through sacrifice and ritual. A justification for paying tithes and giving unto Caesar. Following the new clergy of supposed experts with their dazzlingly accurate (and utterly nonsensical) predictions of famine, pestillence, war and death.
The fact that none of this really stands up to logical scrutiny is neither here nor there. The fact that even on their own predictions, the consequences of climate change in no conceivable way justify the means proposed to stop it matters not one jot. Nor is the fact that many of the measures will make the problems they claim to be solving much worse.
Those logical arguments only work against a position that is somewhat logical to begin with. They'll no more dissuade a committed environmentalist than they will a religious fanatic.
My own take on it is that we rather hastily abandoned the old belief systems without thinking through what would replace them. Perhaps in the hope that if we dismantled God then we would all become rational humanists guided by evidence and reason alone. In fact we have stayed as medieval peasants guided by a different clergy, serving different lords and worshipping a different God.
You could make an argument that better education would strengthen people's critical faculties, but that doesn't solve the problem of who is providing the education. People don't have the time or inclination to look into these things. They think if so many politicians, scientists, celebrities and David Attenborough say something then it must be true.
ATG said:
I do like the idea that governments create sham crises so they can tax and spend in order to avert the non-existent crises. Because clearly governments just like taxing and spending on random st supplied by their mates. The fact that every government since the beginning of time tries to do things on an absolute shoestring budget that leads to half baked crap being delivered shouldn't in any way persuade us that the "it's a conspiracy so they can tax us" thesis is utterly demented.
FTFY. Let's not forget the corruption that is the life blood of the Tory party these days. t supplied by their mates. The fact that every government since the beginning of time tries to do things on an absolute shoestring budget that leads to half baked crap being delivered shouldn't in any way persuade us that the "it's a conspiracy so they can tax us" thesis is utterly demented.PlywoodPascal said:
1. I don't see tax rates rising (yet?) as part of net zero
]
Have you taken a look at your power bill lately?. That is a foretaste of the world of net zero. ]
So in terms of charges it is levies on bills, drastic price rises for essentials and charging schemes like the ULEZ. The ordinary worker in the West is going to have their living standards systematically reduced while a wealthy few get ever richer.
JagLover said:
Have you taken a look at your power bill lately?. That is a foretaste of the world of net zero.
So in terms of charges it is levies on bills, drastic price rises for essentials and charging schemes like the ULEZ. The ordinary worker in the West is going to have their living standards systematically reduced while a wealthy few get ever richer.
The energy bill that is inflated due to international gas prices?So in terms of charges it is levies on bills, drastic price rises for essentials and charging schemes like the ULEZ. The ordinary worker in the West is going to have their living standards systematically reduced while a wealthy few get ever richer.
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