Network Rail fined £6.7M for Carmont derailment

Network Rail fined £6.7M for Carmont derailment

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matchmaker

Original Poster:

8,651 posts

207 months

Friday 8th September 2023
quotequote all
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66749546

BBC said:
The judge, Lord Matthews, said no penalty could compensate for the loss suffered by the families of those who died and of the six people on board the train who were injured.

Speaking outside court, Ray McCullough, the father of the train's driver, said the fine was "not enough"."At the end of the day, the train should not have gone out," he said.

It has also been announced that a fatal accident inquiry will be held into the crash.The Crown Office and Prosecution Fiscal Service said the aim was to help avoid a similar incident happening again.

Dibble

13,025 posts

247 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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I’m too lazy to Google this one, but how much fiscal pain will that cause Network Rail? I’ve no idea of their budget and whether £6.7m would bankrupt them, or barely go noticed on the balance sheet.

Oliver Hardy

3,002 posts

81 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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If it was the fault of the driver or guard they would be prosecuted but as it seems it was the failings of policy (Ie directors), no one gets prosecuted as it is the fault of the company.

Welcome.

9,675 posts

43 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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Doesn’t matter how much, as the fine will just get added to train fares.

JagLover

43,817 posts

242 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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Dibble said:
I’m too lazy to Google this one, but how much fiscal pain will that cause Network Rail? I’ve no idea of their budget and whether £6.7m would bankrupt them, or barely go noticed on the balance sheet.
Network Rail is a public body run by the Department for Transport.

DaveTheRave87

2,134 posts

96 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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JagLover said:
Dibble said:
I’m too lazy to Google this one, but how much fiscal pain will that cause Network Rail? I’ve no idea of their budget and whether £6.7m would bankrupt them, or barely go noticed on the balance sheet.
Network Rail is a public body run by the Department for Transport.
Does that mean that the taxpayer has been fined £6.7M for the derailment?

Vasco

17,376 posts

112 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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Surely this is all a bit ridiculous ?

Any amount of fine for NR means nothing really in practice ?

LunarOne

5,762 posts

144 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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I don't see the point in fining public bodies like Police forces, NHS trusts or in this case, Network Rail. The punishment only ends up penalising the public, the people who these bodies are supposed to serve.

Unless individuals are accountable, these fines do nothing to improve processes. The only way for them to be effective is for penalties to work against the chief executive(s) who are ultimately responsible. So for example, the fine would be levied at say 20% of the person's income, even if they leave that job and work for someone else or start a new business, and like the far reaching arms of the U.S. IRS, those levies would apply no matter where in the world the individual went.

JagLover

43,817 posts

242 months

Friday 8th September 2023
quotequote all
DaveTheRave87 said:
JagLover said:
Dibble said:
I’m too lazy to Google this one, but how much fiscal pain will that cause Network Rail? I’ve no idea of their budget and whether £6.7m would bankrupt them, or barely go noticed on the balance sheet.
Network Rail is a public body run by the Department for Transport.
Does that mean that the taxpayer has been fined £6.7M for the derailment?
Effectively, by one remove.

They are a Not-for-profit whose funding comes from a mixture of public grants and track charges.

LastPoster

2,724 posts

190 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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No contractor to take all the blame this time

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3209609.stm


catso

14,854 posts

274 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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Vasco said:
Surely this is all a bit ridiculous ?
Indeed, once they have £6.7m less in their budget, how will that help them improve safety for the future?

Plus, who gets the £6.7m?

valiant

11,374 posts

167 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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LunarOne said:
I don't see the point in fining public bodies like Police forces, NHS trusts or in this case, Network Rail. The punishment only ends up penalising the public, the people who these bodies are supposed to serve.

Unless individuals are accountable, these fines do nothing to improve processes. The only way for them to be effective is for penalties to work against the chief executive(s) who are ultimately responsible. So for example, the fine would be levied at say 20% of the person's income, even if they leave that job and work for someone else or start a new business, and like the far reaching arms of the U.S. IRS, those levies would apply no matter where in the world the individual went.
On the last CEO thread where their large renumeration was questioned, it was pointed out that they bear ultimate responsibility and could even go to jail if they fail.

Well, people have died here and no charges filed and very unlikely to be. Yes, I know this is a public body but the point still stands and the same would happen in a similarly sized private company.

I guess we can lay that fallacy to bed now.

Vasco

17,376 posts

112 months

Friday 8th September 2023
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catso said:
Vasco said:
Surely this is all a bit ridiculous ?
Indeed, once they have £6.7m less in their budget, how will that help them improve safety for the future?

Plus, who gets the £6.7m?
I guess it all just ends up as a bookeeping entry....

Meaningless

LastPoster

2,724 posts

190 months

Friday 8th September 2023
quotequote all
LunarOne said:
I don't see the point in fining public bodies like Police forces, NHS trusts or in this case, Network Rail. The punishment only ends up penalising the public, the people who these bodies are supposed to serve.

Unless individuals are accountable, these fines do nothing to improve processes. The only way for them to be effective is for penalties to work against the chief executive(s) who are ultimately responsible. So for example, the fine would be levied at say 20% of the person's income, even if they leave that job and work for someone else or start a new business, and like the far reaching arms of the U.S. IRS, those levies would apply no matter where in the world the individual went.
The Judge in the trial regarding the Barrow Legionella outbreak made the point in his sentencing remarks that the fines given to the council would have been much higher if they had been a commercial operation. He would have imposed fines many times higher but ultimately the money could only come from the Council Tax payers some of whom are the friends and relatives of the deceased.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/assets/docs/ba...

matchmaker

Original Poster:

8,651 posts

207 months

Friday 8th September 2023
quotequote all
catso said:
Vasco said:
Surely this is all a bit ridiculous ?
Indeed, once they have £6.7m less in their budget, how will that help them improve safety for the future?

Plus, who gets the £6.7m?
Initially the Sheriff Clerk at Aberdeen...then eventually to HM Treasury.