Notting Hill Carnival is a disgrace

[Upinflames]

Over 250 arrests, 8 stabbings, people running amok with machetes, 6 coppers bitten, people urinated on from upstairs windows.

A celebration of multicultarism indeed.

70,000 people descending on Cheshire for Creamfields meanwhile have only been in the news because they bought all the booze in the local supermarket.

[Randy Winkman]

Has it really taken until Wednesday for PH to get to this? Normally I'd have seen this by Sunday lunchtime at the latest.

Of course, it was Ken Livingstone that tried to get it made more family friendly and in a more suitable location.

[Upinflames]

Randy Winkman said:

Has it really taken until Wednesday for PH to get to this? Normally I'd have seen this by Sunday lunchtime at the latest.

Of course, it was Ken Livingstone that tried to get it made more family friendly and in a more suitable location.

Yeah I read it in the Telegraph this morning, was surprised there wasn't all ready a post on here

[p1stonhead]

250 arrests out of ‘up to’ 2 million people who attend?
An absolutely tiny fraction.

Creamfields apparently had 39 arrests out of 70,000 who attended in 2022.
So about 6 times higher….

[gt_12345]

p1stonhead said:

250 arrests out of ‘up to’ 2 million people who attend?
An absolutely tiny fraction.

Creamfields apparently had 39 arrests out of 70,000 who attended in 2022.
So about 6 times higher….

39 peopled arrested for being drunk vs 250 fighting with 2ft-long swords?

Edited by gt_12345 on Wednesday 30th August 09:29

[Griffith4ever]

NHC has always been an excuse for certain elements to run around with impunity. I went a few times back 20 years ago or so. There was usually a report of one stabbing, or so, but never saw anything, nor any machetes ! Used to get the gangs you now see in the press masked. Unmasked back then, charging the crowds to get through/ pick pocket / grope.

It's fairly animalistic. I have great memories of the carniva!s but would not go now it was overcrowded back then....

[gruffalo]

p1stonhead said:

250 arrests out of ‘up to’ 2 million people who attend?
An absolutely tiny fraction.

Creamfields apparently had 39 arrests out of 70,000 who attended in 2022.
So about 6 times higher….

How many stabbed?

[GT03ROB]

Griffith4ever said:

NHC has always been an excuse for certain elements to run around with impunity. I went a few times back 20 years ago or so. There was usually a report of one stabbing, or so, but never saw anything, nor any machetes ! Used to get the gangs you now see in the press masked. Unmasked back then, charging the crowds to get through/ pick pocket / grope.

It's fairly animalistic. I have great memories of the carniva!s but would not go now it was overcrowded back then....

Exactly always been like it since it started.

[Earthdweller]

p1stonhead said:

250 arrests out of ‘up to’ 2 million people who attend?
An absolutely tiny fraction.

Creamfields apparently had 39 arrests out of 70,000 who attended in 2022.
So about 6 times higher….

Let’s put some perspective on it

NHC is a massive, absolutely massive policing operation that doesn’t just encompass the three days of the event but months of planning beforehand

There are several weeks of pre planned raids and arrests before the event to try to nip any gang violence in the bud

The footprint of the carnival is locked down from Friday through to Tuesday morning and is policed 24/7 throughout that period

All Police leave in the capital is cancelled for the period

At its peak over 10k officers are deployed within the footprint of NHC .. over the weekend something around 30k officer shifts

All at the public expense

What the crime figures for NHC don’t show is everything that happens outside the footprint .. ie if there’s a stabbing in Harrow Rd, it’s not counted in the figures

There is also a huge mobile policing operation with the Commissioner’s reserve to respond to disorder elsewhere caused by NHC afterparty’s and the like elsewhere within London

75 officers injured, one seriously and remains in hospital


Contrast that to Creamfields ( and other music festivals) which are “policed” mainly by stewards and has a small policing element most of which is funded as private cost policing by the event organisers .. not from the public purse

The arrests at Creamfields ( and other music festivals) aren’t like for like with NHC, they tend to be for simple possession and drunkenness, the former normally discovered on attempted entry whereas NHC normally ranges from Murder down through various levels of serious offences

You are unfortunately comparing apples with pears

[ChemicalChaos]

Earthdweller said:

p1stonhead said:

250 arrests out of ‘up to’ 2 million people who attend?
An absolutely tiny fraction.

Creamfields apparently had 39 arrests out of 70,000 who attended in 2022.
So about 6 times higher….

Let’s put some perspective on it

NHC is a massive, absolutely massive policing operation that doesn’t just encompass the three days of the event but months of planning beforehand

There are several weeks of pre planned raids and arrests before the event to try to nip any gang violence in the bud

The footprint of the carnival is locked down from Friday through to Tuesday morning and is policed 24/7 throughout that period

All Police leave in the capital is cancelled for the period

At its peak over 10k officers are deployed within the footprint of NHC .. over the weekend something around 30k officer shifts

All at the public expense

What the crime figures for NHC don’t show is everything that happens outside the footprint .. ie if there’s a stabbing in Harrow Rd, it’s not counted in the figures

There is also a huge mobile policing operation with the Commissioner’s reserve to respond to disorder elsewhere caused by NHC afterparty’s and the like elsewhere within London

75 officers injured, one seriously and remains in hospital


Contrast that to Creamfields ( and other music festivals) which are “policed” mainly by stewards and has a small policing element most of which is funded as private cost policing by the event organisers .. not from the public purse

The arrests at Creamfields ( and other music festivals) aren’t like for like with NHC, they tend to be for simple possession and drunkenness, the former normally discovered on attempted entry whereas NHC normally ranges from Murder down through various levels of serious offences

You are unfortunately comparing apples with pears

The part that usually doe sit for me is how every shop and building along the route has to be boarded up to prevent looting and destruction. Don't see that at any other street festivals....

[gazapc]

Earthdweller said:

p1stonhead said:

250 arrests out of ‘up to’ 2 million people who attend?
An absolutely tiny fraction.

Creamfields apparently had 39 arrests out of 70,000 who attended in 2022.
So about 6 times higher….

Let’s put some perspective on it

NHC is a massive, absolutely massive policing operation that doesn’t just encompass the three days of the event but months of planning beforehand

There are several weeks of pre planned raids and arrests before the event to try to nip any gang violence in the bud

The footprint of the carnival is locked down from Friday through to Tuesday morning and is policed 24/7 throughout that period

All Police leave in the capital is cancelled for the period

At its peak over 10k officers are deployed within the footprint of NHC .. over the weekend something around 30k officer shifts

All at the public expense

What the crime figures for NHC don’t show is everything that happens outside the footprint .. ie if there’s a stabbing in Harrow Rd, it’s not counted in the figures

There is also a huge mobile policing operation with the Commissioner’s reserve to respond to disorder elsewhere caused by NHC afterparty’s and the like elsewhere within London

75 officers injured, one seriously and remains in hospital


Contrast that to Creamfields ( and other music festivals) which are “policed” mainly by stewards and has a small policing element most of which is funded as private cost policing by the event organisers .. not from the public purse

The arrests at Creamfields ( and other music festivals) aren’t like for like with NHC, they tend to be for simple possession and drunkenness, the former normally discovered on attempted entry whereas NHC normally ranges from Murder down through various levels of serious offences

You are unfortunately comparing apples with pears

And as someone else ive seen has pointed out, the '2 million' claim is rather suspect since it isn't clear where that that value (and the resulting arrests per attendee) comes from or how it has been calculated.

[BikeBikeBIke]

ChemicalChaos said:

The part that usually doe sit for me is how every shop and building along the route has to be boarded up to prevent looting and destruction. Don't see that at any other street festivals....

said:

There are several weeks of pre planned raids and arrests before the event to try to nip any gang violence in the bud

Yeah, don't get either of these at Upton Jazz Festival.

Impossible to ban it, though, it will carry on regardless. I guess Londoners will just have to suck it up.

[Tom8]

Who pays the policing bill? With no ticket sales what money do they have to pay for anything? Can't believe residents or services tolerate it, having to board their houses up then having all the excrement and everything else left in their gardens. But no one can criticise diversity no matter how much it costs or how many are killed.

[anonymous-user]

gt_12345 said:

250 fighting with 2ft-long swords?

That sounds like a fun event to watch actually.

[mwstewart]

I'm surprised that there was a post at all. BAU.

[We are all Brexiteers now]

Killboy said:

gt_12345 said:

250 fighting with 2ft-long swords?

That sounds like a fun event to watch actually.

Fill your boots
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12457685/...

[oyster]

Why are people comparing a huge, public street carnival in a major city to a private, ticketed event on private land in the countryside?

That's farcical.

How does the Notting Hill Carnival stack up against the carnivals in Sao Paulo or Rio?

[Tango13]

Killboy said:

gt_12345 said:

250 fighting with 2ft-long swords?

That sounds like a fun event to watch actually.

User name checks out...

I was at Cadwell Park for the superbikes over the weekend, three police cars were about just to remind everyone to behave themselves on the roads, 4 or 5 bike cops on the bike safe stand drumming up some business and a couple of pcso's wandering about for a crowd of 50,000+

The two main threats to the police were sunburn and tripping over an exposed tree root.

[williamp]

ChemicalChaos said:

Earthdweller said:

p1stonhead said:

250 arrests out of ‘up to’ 2 million people who attend?
An absolutely tiny fraction.

Creamfields apparently had 39 arrests out of 70,000 who attended in 2022.
So about 6 times higher….

Let’s put some perspective on it

NHC is a massive, absolutely massive policing operation that doesn’t just encompass the three days of the event but months of planning beforehand

There are several weeks of pre planned raids and arrests before the event to try to nip any gang violence in the bud

The footprint of the carnival is locked down from Friday through to Tuesday morning and is policed 24/7 throughout that period

All Police leave in the capital is cancelled for the period

At its peak over 10k officers are deployed within the footprint of NHC .. over the weekend something around 30k officer shifts

All at the public expense

What the crime figures for NHC don’t show is everything that happens outside the footprint .. ie if there’s a stabbing in Harrow Rd, it’s not counted in the figures

There is also a huge mobile policing operation with the Commissioner’s reserve to respond to disorder elsewhere caused by NHC afterparty’s and the like elsewhere within London

75 officers injured, one seriously and remains in hospital


Contrast that to Creamfields ( and other music festivals) which are “policed” mainly by stewards and has a small policing element most of which is funded as private cost policing by the event organisers .. not from the public purse

The arrests at Creamfields ( and other music festivals) aren’t like for like with NHC, they tend to be for simple possession and drunkenness, the former normally discovered on attempted entry whereas NHC normally ranges from Murder down through various levels of serious offences

You are unfortunately comparing apples with pears

The part that usually doe sit for me is how every shop and building along the route has to be boarded up to prevent looting and destruction. Don't see that at any other street festivals....

I would ask whether it should be banned, but then I read this from the Mayor

"Notting Hill Carnival has turned a community-led celebration of London’s Caribbean history and culture into one of the world’s biggest and best street festivals. It’s part of the fabric of our city. "

And realise you are wrong...

[Ari]

Tom8 said:

Who pays the policing bill? With no ticket sales what money do they have to pay for anything? Can't believe residents or services tolerate it, having to board their houses up then having all the excrement and everything else left in their gardens. But no one can criticise diversity no matter how much it costs or how many are killed.

As a resident, how would you go about not tolerating it?