Nicolas Sarkozy

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Discussion

W12GT

Original Poster:

3,690 posts

227 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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What an absolute twit. Calling for Ukraine to accept Russian occupation of areas currently held by the aggressor, also that they should not be allowed to join NATO and act as a neutral buffer to appease Russia.

Words fail me. What an absolutely vile little man. Wonder how he’d feel if it were France that was occupied as per WW2 and no one had stepped in to help?

Kermit power

29,429 posts

219 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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The part about letting Ukraine into Russia is, I think, very much something that should be debated. Putting in a direct NATO border that long with Russia would be a pretty huge escalation in tensions.

grumbledoak

31,763 posts

239 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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It's not a terrible idea. In fact it sounds like quite a likely outcome. Maybe they should accept it now and end the bloodshed?

98elise

27,866 posts

167 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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How much of France would he have been willing to give up to an aggressor?

nikaiyo2

4,978 posts

201 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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98elise said:
How much of France would he have been willing to give up to an aggressor?
Well… if we are going to go off past experience about 3/5 tongue out

Getragdogleg

9,042 posts

189 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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France, lovely place spoiled by the people. wink

MrGTI6

3,195 posts

136 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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When I saw the thread title, I thought he'd died. How disappointing.

W12GT

Original Poster:

3,690 posts

227 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
It's not a terrible idea. In fact it sounds like quite a likely outcome. Maybe they should accept it now and end the bloodshed?
And you believe that will happen? If Ukraine concede then Russia will take everything and they will continue to rape and pillage.

People really need to do some thorough research and look what happened in Germany post WW2 where families were split apart overnight - sometimes even those from the same household (depending on what part of the house they were in at the time the Russians appeared at the door). Russians are animals, they always have been and almost certainly will continue to be.

W12GT

Original Poster:

3,690 posts

227 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
quotequote all
MrGTI6 said:
When I saw the thread title, I thought he'd died. How disappointing.
I feel your pain. Nasty little man, always has been and always will be; yet he continues to divide France internally with his bizarre opinions.

Murph7355

38,719 posts

262 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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nikaiyo2 said:
98elise said:
How much of France would he have been willing to give up to an aggressor?
Well… if we are going to go off past experience about 3/5 tongue out
biggrin

Was thinking similar. Why is anyone surprised that an archetypal Frenchman says something typically French biggrin

isaldiri

19,884 posts

174 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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98elise said:
How much of France would he have been willing to give up to an aggressor?
As much of it as necessary to bail himself out of trouble I suppose. Just as in Ukraine now, it wouldn't be up to the invaded country to decide how much to give up but rather their supporters providing the means to do so....

NuckyThompson

1,689 posts

174 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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MrGTI6 said:
When I saw the thread title, I thought he'd died. How disappointing.
Aaron Ramsey did score yesterday so there’s still time

Error_404_Username_not_found

2,663 posts

57 months

Sunday 20th August 2023
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W12GT said:
MrGTI6 said:
When I saw the thread title, I thought he'd died. How disappointing.
I feel your pain. Nasty little man, always has been and always will be; yet he continues to divide France internally with his bizarre opinions.
Vastly inflated opinion of his own importance. Fondly licking the bunghole of any actual political figure he comes into contact with.
Merkel, Scholz ,Putin, Biden, Verhofstadt take your pick.
No different to his successor, the current incumbent. Conceited, posturing, irrelevant popinjays both. At least they are consistent.
(And you can add Blair to that list. I cannot understand why the MSM give them any airtime).

Probably need to take my blood pressure meds now.

JagLover

43,584 posts

241 months

Monday 21st August 2023
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W12GT said:
And you believe that will happen? If Ukraine concede then Russia will take everything and they will continue to rape and pillage.

People really need to do some thorough research and look what happened in Germany post WW2 where families were split apart overnight - sometimes even those from the same household (depending on what part of the house they were in at the time the Russians appeared at the door). Russians are animals, they always have been and almost certainly will continue to be.
Extremely simplistic to judge an entire people by their actions against an invader in circumstances as extreme as the second world war. The Germans went on a brutal rampage in the Soviet Union, with the mass killing of civilians and POWs, and most in the Red Army that invaded Germany would have either lost family members or seen evidence of the atrocities as they advanced westward.

They should be held accountable for any war crimes committed now, but I think people need to read up about the actions of the German army in the east before they start coming out with statements like the above.

trickywoo

12,214 posts

236 months

Monday 21st August 2023
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Kermit power said:
Putting in a direct NATO border that long with Russia would be a pretty huge escalation in tensions.
Worse than or equal to the 830 mile long border with Finland?


Edited by trickywoo on Monday 21st August 07:46

DeejRC

6,332 posts

88 months

Monday 21st August 2023
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Must admit I thought Mr Bruni was in the clink for fraud or whatever.

Ukraine as a buffer to Russia is largely NATO and Western Europe’s nominal situation. The irony of course being that USSR adopted the same strategy the other way.

Kermit power

29,429 posts

219 months

Monday 21st August 2023
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trickywoo said:
Kermit power said:
Putting in a direct NATO border that long with Russia would be a pretty huge escalation in tensions.
Worse than or equal to the 830 mile long border with Finland?
Yes, I'd say worse. It's not just about the length.

Firstly, as I understand much of the Ukranian border is the sort of rolling plain that lends itself well to a full on invasion whereas most of the Finnish border is pretty impenetrable virgin forest.

More important though, is the politics of the situation. The Russian claim on Ukraine is, of course, utterly unjustified, but it is very high profile, and it's easy to imagine how things could escalate if Ukraine is allowed into NATO.

It's not right, but pragmatic reality can't be ignored.

Biggy Stardust

7,068 posts

50 months

Monday 21st August 2023
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Kermit power said:
Yes, I'd say worse. It's not just about the length.

Firstly, as I understand much of the Ukranian border is the sort of rolling plain that lends itself well to a full on invasion.
The Russian army could advance to Kyiv & take over the entire country in only 3 days, probably.

hidetheelephants

27,386 posts

199 months

Monday 21st August 2023
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Is this a bid to wrest the leadership of National Rally from Le Pen? hehe

rdjohn

6,333 posts

201 months

Monday 21st August 2023
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Visiting Brittany this year, there was a poster of Macron with a black eye. The text read to the effect.

“So I went to Putin and told him how this would end”

Making war with Russia, or China makes very little sense to the West. Macron has also said that Russia should not be humiliated. That is what happened to Germany after the Great War. While the rest of Europe was espousing pacifism with the slogan “Never again”, Germany was seething “Never again will Germany be humiliated”, thus leading to WW2.

It was obvious to everyone, except France, that Russia was about to invade in February last year. The appropriate response from NATO should have been, “Do that, and we will destroy the Black Sea fleet and provide air-cover for Ukrainian troops”. But Putin knew that he had already been allowed to retake Crimea, Russia’s short-term gift to Ukraine.

By not calling Putin’s bluff, the inevitable happened, many Ukrainians have died and supplying weapons piecemeal has not enabled an overwhelming response, against Russian forces.

It is hard to believe that Ukraine will ever get Crimea back and a stalemate looks a likely outcome in the east. Every week we read that the Russian economy is about to collapse and yet their drones keep hitting civilian targets on a daily basis.

If Russian troops suddenly do start to get overwhelmed it is difficult not to see Putin, or his cohort, deciding to go nuclear, after all.

This whole episode is a tragic mess that should have been avoided, somehow. Hanging on for a Republican president is Putin’s best hope. NATO will suddenly become much weaker.