Nicolas Sarkozy
Discussion
What an absolute twit. Calling for Ukraine to accept Russian occupation of areas currently held by the aggressor, also that they should not be allowed to join NATO and act as a neutral buffer to appease Russia.
Words fail me. What an absolutely vile little man. Wonder how he’d feel if it were France that was occupied as per WW2 and no one had stepped in to help?
Words fail me. What an absolutely vile little man. Wonder how he’d feel if it were France that was occupied as per WW2 and no one had stepped in to help?
grumbledoak said:
It's not a terrible idea. In fact it sounds like quite a likely outcome. Maybe they should accept it now and end the bloodshed?
And you believe that will happen? If Ukraine concede then Russia will take everything and they will continue to rape and pillage.People really need to do some thorough research and look what happened in Germany post WW2 where families were split apart overnight - sometimes even those from the same household (depending on what part of the house they were in at the time the Russians appeared at the door). Russians are animals, they always have been and almost certainly will continue to be.
98elise said:
How much of France would he have been willing to give up to an aggressor?
As much of it as necessary to bail himself out of trouble I suppose. Just as in Ukraine now, it wouldn't be up to the invaded country to decide how much to give up but rather their supporters providing the means to do so....W12GT said:
MrGTI6 said:
When I saw the thread title, I thought he'd died. How disappointing.
I feel your pain. Nasty little man, always has been and always will be; yet he continues to divide France internally with his bizarre opinions.Merkel, Scholz ,Putin, Biden, Verhofstadt take your pick.
No different to his successor, the current incumbent. Conceited, posturing, irrelevant popinjays both. At least they are consistent.
(And you can add Blair to that list. I cannot understand why the MSM give them any airtime).
Probably need to take my blood pressure meds now.
W12GT said:
And you believe that will happen? If Ukraine concede then Russia will take everything and they will continue to rape and pillage.
People really need to do some thorough research and look what happened in Germany post WW2 where families were split apart overnight - sometimes even those from the same household (depending on what part of the house they were in at the time the Russians appeared at the door). Russians are animals, they always have been and almost certainly will continue to be.
Extremely simplistic to judge an entire people by their actions against an invader in circumstances as extreme as the second world war. The Germans went on a brutal rampage in the Soviet Union, with the mass killing of civilians and POWs, and most in the Red Army that invaded Germany would have either lost family members or seen evidence of the atrocities as they advanced westward. People really need to do some thorough research and look what happened in Germany post WW2 where families were split apart overnight - sometimes even those from the same household (depending on what part of the house they were in at the time the Russians appeared at the door). Russians are animals, they always have been and almost certainly will continue to be.
They should be held accountable for any war crimes committed now, but I think people need to read up about the actions of the German army in the east before they start coming out with statements like the above.
trickywoo said:
Kermit power said:
Putting in a direct NATO border that long with Russia would be a pretty huge escalation in tensions.
Worse than or equal to the 830 mile long border with Finland?Firstly, as I understand much of the Ukranian border is the sort of rolling plain that lends itself well to a full on invasion whereas most of the Finnish border is pretty impenetrable virgin forest.
More important though, is the politics of the situation. The Russian claim on Ukraine is, of course, utterly unjustified, but it is very high profile, and it's easy to imagine how things could escalate if Ukraine is allowed into NATO.
It's not right, but pragmatic reality can't be ignored.
Kermit power said:
Yes, I'd say worse. It's not just about the length.
Firstly, as I understand much of the Ukranian border is the sort of rolling plain that lends itself well to a full on invasion.
The Russian army could advance to Kyiv & take over the entire country in only 3 days, probably.Firstly, as I understand much of the Ukranian border is the sort of rolling plain that lends itself well to a full on invasion.
Visiting Brittany this year, there was a poster of Macron with a black eye. The text read to the effect.
“So I went to Putin and told him how this would end”
Making war with Russia, or China makes very little sense to the West. Macron has also said that Russia should not be humiliated. That is what happened to Germany after the Great War. While the rest of Europe was espousing pacifism with the slogan “Never again”, Germany was seething “Never again will Germany be humiliated”, thus leading to WW2.
It was obvious to everyone, except France, that Russia was about to invade in February last year. The appropriate response from NATO should have been, “Do that, and we will destroy the Black Sea fleet and provide air-cover for Ukrainian troops”. But Putin knew that he had already been allowed to retake Crimea, Russia’s short-term gift to Ukraine.
By not calling Putin’s bluff, the inevitable happened, many Ukrainians have died and supplying weapons piecemeal has not enabled an overwhelming response, against Russian forces.
It is hard to believe that Ukraine will ever get Crimea back and a stalemate looks a likely outcome in the east. Every week we read that the Russian economy is about to collapse and yet their drones keep hitting civilian targets on a daily basis.
If Russian troops suddenly do start to get overwhelmed it is difficult not to see Putin, or his cohort, deciding to go nuclear, after all.
This whole episode is a tragic mess that should have been avoided, somehow. Hanging on for a Republican president is Putin’s best hope. NATO will suddenly become much weaker.
“So I went to Putin and told him how this would end”
Making war with Russia, or China makes very little sense to the West. Macron has also said that Russia should not be humiliated. That is what happened to Germany after the Great War. While the rest of Europe was espousing pacifism with the slogan “Never again”, Germany was seething “Never again will Germany be humiliated”, thus leading to WW2.
It was obvious to everyone, except France, that Russia was about to invade in February last year. The appropriate response from NATO should have been, “Do that, and we will destroy the Black Sea fleet and provide air-cover for Ukrainian troops”. But Putin knew that he had already been allowed to retake Crimea, Russia’s short-term gift to Ukraine.
By not calling Putin’s bluff, the inevitable happened, many Ukrainians have died and supplying weapons piecemeal has not enabled an overwhelming response, against Russian forces.
It is hard to believe that Ukraine will ever get Crimea back and a stalemate looks a likely outcome in the east. Every week we read that the Russian economy is about to collapse and yet their drones keep hitting civilian targets on a daily basis.
If Russian troops suddenly do start to get overwhelmed it is difficult not to see Putin, or his cohort, deciding to go nuclear, after all.
This whole episode is a tragic mess that should have been avoided, somehow. Hanging on for a Republican president is Putin’s best hope. NATO will suddenly become much weaker.
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