Thurrock council and the solar farm
Discussion
Thurrock council have big financial problems and are cutting services and raising taxes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991
If I were an investigator I'd be looking very carefully at the finances of those in charge of giving out such large sums of tax payers cash in case any of it might have accidentally splashed back into their accounts too...
Lessons will be learned no doubt.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991
If I were an investigator I'd be looking very carefully at the finances of those in charge of giving out such large sums of tax payers cash in case any of it might have accidentally splashed back into their accounts too...
Lessons will be learned no doubt.
Zed Ed said:
Was this close to all eggs in one basket?
Always wondered why councils even had a mandate to make these kind of investments.
I expect accountability won’t be taken and fraud will be the get out for staff involved.
£655m into one company - absolutely insane!Always wondered why councils even had a mandate to make these kind of investments.
I expect accountability won’t be taken and fraud will be the get out for staff involved.
Don't understand why a council would invest into solar at this scale on what looks like ex-agriculture land? Understand if it is on their rooftops and land at a smaller scale to offset their energy costs longer term.
To me its at best utterly negligent at worst criminal, the council has a duty to uphold their side of the social contract and have failed. they should be held fully accountable and this should see the reintroduction of a checks and balances system to make sure this sort of thing is impossible.
They have been failing to provide the services the taxpayer has been contributing to all the while playing big business investor games with the money.
The lot want putting on trial.
Not to mention that Thurrock have been borrowing off other councils too. Nice bit of spreading the problem around:
https://www.lgcplus.com/finance/revealed-scale-of-...
They have been failing to provide the services the taxpayer has been contributing to all the while playing big business investor games with the money.
The lot want putting on trial.
Not to mention that Thurrock have been borrowing off other councils too. Nice bit of spreading the problem around:
https://www.lgcplus.com/finance/revealed-scale-of-...
Edited by Getragdogleg on Monday 31st July 19:55
Zed Ed said:
Was this close to all eggs in one basket?
Always wondered why councils even had a mandate to make these kind of investments.
I expect accountability won’t be taken and fraud will be the get out for staff involved.
This is what happens when the central government removes about 60% of local council's spending power, increases the amount of services they are directly responsible for, forbids them from raising their own taxes by more than 2%/year, legally forbids them from running a deficit and introduce one new way to raise revenue - invest in commercial real estate ventures regardless of their location (i.e. the council can invest in projects outside its own jurisdiction). Always wondered why councils even had a mandate to make these kind of investments.
I expect accountability won’t be taken and fraud will be the get out for staff involved.
This makes it very hard for councils to invest in stuff that provides a social return but not a financial one (parks, libraries, schools, cycle paths etc.) but very easy for them to invest in stuff that provides a financial return but a limited social one (residential property, commercial property, retail parks etc.). This includes speculative investments using the council's own financial credit - basically turning councils into investment banks that can loan money at cheap rates. Councils can also set their own borrowing limits.
All a lovely package set up by the Cameron government that in no way virtually compels councils to make up for funding shortfalls by funneling (and risking) public money into private property, business and land interests - interests that tend to vote for blue-hued politicians: Heavily incentivise councils to sink their taxpayer's money into luxury flat developments and solar farms in the hope that the return from that lets them keep the library open and the heating on in the schools.
ApexCult said:
£655m into one company - absolutely insane!
Don't understand why a council would invest into solar at this scale on what looks like ex-agriculture land? Understand if it is on their rooftops and land at a smaller scale to offset their energy costs longer term.
See above - who owns the land and who stood to profit from having a firehose of public money directed at it?Don't understand why a council would invest into solar at this scale on what looks like ex-agriculture land? Understand if it is on their rooftops and land at a smaller scale to offset their energy costs longer term.
- Looks into crystal ball to see the future*
Have I missed anything?
It's reminiscent of the fortunes lost by councils investing in dodgy Icelandic banks. Lessons were learned back then, apparently.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/oct/10/l...
2xChevrons said:
Zed Ed said:
Was this close to all eggs in one basket?
Always wondered why councils even had a mandate to make these kind of investments.
I expect accountability won’t be taken and fraud will be the get out for staff involved.
This is what happens when the central government removes about 60% of local council's spending power, increases the amount of services they are directly responsible for, forbids them from raising their own taxes by more than 2%/year, legally forbids them from running a deficit and introduce one new way to raise revenue - invest in commercial real estate ventures regardless of their location (i.e. the council can invest in projects outside its own jurisdiction). Always wondered why councils even had a mandate to make these kind of investments.
I expect accountability won’t be taken and fraud will be the get out for staff involved.
This makes it very hard for councils to invest in stuff that provides a social return but not a financial one (parks, libraries, schools, cycle paths etc.) but very easy for them to invest in stuff that provides a financial return but a limited social one (residential property, commercial property, retail parks etc.). This includes speculative investments using the council's own financial credit - basically turning councils into investment banks that can loan money at cheap rates. Councils can also set their own borrowing limits.
All a lovely package set up by the Cameron government that in no way virtually compels councils to make up for funding shortfalls by funneling (and risking) public money into private property, business and land interests - interests that tend to vote for blue-hued politicians: Heavily incentivise councils to sink their taxpayer's money into luxury flat developments and solar farms in the hope that the return from that lets them keep the library open and the heating on in the schools.
ApexCult said:
£655m into one company - absolutely insane!
Don't understand why a council would invest into solar at this scale on what looks like ex-agriculture land? Understand if it is on their rooftops and land at a smaller scale to offset their energy costs longer term.
See above - who owns the land and who stood to profit from having a firehose of public money directed at it?Don't understand why a council would invest into solar at this scale on what looks like ex-agriculture land? Understand if it is on their rooftops and land at a smaller scale to offset their energy costs longer term.
Cameron also scrapped the regulator tasked with stopping things like this from happening.
Socialised losses & privatised profits again…
Rivenink said:
Thurrock arn't the only ones.
Awful Tory policy to allow local councils to speculate with taxpayer money.
Absolutely, though the hard of thinking will just blame councils because they can’t see too far ahead. This is another example of stupid policy based on dogma, how many more? Can this bloke be brought to any sort of justice? Awful Tory policy to allow local councils to speculate with taxpayer money.
Biggy Stardust said:
Blue62 said:
Absolutely, though the hard of thinking will just blame councils because they can’t see too far ahead.
Or they blame the councils because the councils are the ones that lost all their money on stupid gambles. It'll be one of the two options, certainly.skwdenyer said:
Blame is irrelevant - it shouldn’t have been allowed to happen, and it’s too late once it has.
Just because they're not prohibited doesn't mean they can't use a little common sense, does it?As for blame being irrelevant, should they not be accountable for their reckless behaviour with taxpayers' money?
Biggy Stardust said:
skwdenyer said:
Blame is irrelevant - it shouldn’t have been allowed to happen, and it’s too late once it has.
Just because they're not prohibited doesn't mean they can't use a little common sense, does it?As for blame being irrelevant, should they not be accountable for their reckless behaviour with taxpayers' money?
Not good enough. Will the councillors repay us?
skwdenyer said:
Biggy Stardust said:
skwdenyer said:
Blame is irrelevant - it shouldn’t have been allowed to happen, and it’s too late once it has.
Just because they're not prohibited doesn't mean they can't use a little common sense, does it?As for blame being irrelevant, should they not be accountable for their reckless behaviour with taxpayers' money?
Not good enough. Will the councillors repay us?
What should happen is Police, forensic accountants and a trial for anyone found getting kickbacks from this, and I 100% guarantee that some of the half a billion has found its way into the pockets of those in the accounts department with influence to this spending.
It will take some digging but its human nature to want and to make sure a slice of the pie is had if pie is on offer.
Can you imagine how much better public facilities and the councils provision for services would have been if they had actually spent it on what they are supposed to spend it on ?
There should never be that sort of money to invest. its not a business its a service that we all pay into, they should have contingency funds for emergencies but to tell us they are skint and have to charge more because they recklessly gave it to a dodgy b
d who has pissed it up the wall and left the country is so morally and ethically wrong it almost unbelievable.I'm not even going to pin too much of the blame on the guy who has run off with the money, If you give a child a huge chocolate bar chances are they are going to eat it all in one go until they are sick, its on the adults in the room to only give the child a small bit of it at a time.
Without the proper supervision this happens, the council did not do their due diligence with public money. lo and behold they now owe lots of it to other councils and are bankrupt. How unexpected. You'd fire them all for gross misconduct if they were running a day-care and left all the kids to it with chocolate and cola while they played business sim on the computer.
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