Should residence visas require you to learn the language?
Poll: Should residence visas require you to learn the language?
Total Members Polled: 113
Discussion
I was discussing this with friends yesterday.
Personally I think that you shouldn’t be granted a long term residence permit or visa (eg more than 5 years) if you don’t speak the language. I am not singling out the UK. If you live in Spain or France you should speak Spanish/French.
For short term secondments or where a stay in a country is definitely not going to become permanent then I can understand that it might be impractical for someone to learn the local language. However people living permanently in a country should be fluent, otherwise there is no way that person can integrate into the society and be an active member of the community.
Anyone who can speak one language can learn another. It just takes effort.
If you are living in a country permanently and don’t need to speak the local language then you aren’t really a part of that country.
I write this as someone who has and is living as an expat.
Personally I think that you shouldn’t be granted a long term residence permit or visa (eg more than 5 years) if you don’t speak the language. I am not singling out the UK. If you live in Spain or France you should speak Spanish/French.
For short term secondments or where a stay in a country is definitely not going to become permanent then I can understand that it might be impractical for someone to learn the local language. However people living permanently in a country should be fluent, otherwise there is no way that person can integrate into the society and be an active member of the community.
Anyone who can speak one language can learn another. It just takes effort.
If you are living in a country permanently and don’t need to speak the local language then you aren’t really a part of that country.
I write this as someone who has and is living as an expat.
I would agree.
We are considering moving to Spain or Portugal. My wife and daughter are learning Spanish now. I'll learn the language if/when we make the move.
If you move to another country you're not really committed if you don't learn the language. You will also miss out on so much of another culture.
I don't want to be living in a British enclave abroad!
We are considering moving to Spain or Portugal. My wife and daughter are learning Spanish now. I'll learn the language if/when we make the move.
If you move to another country you're not really committed if you don't learn the language. You will also miss out on so much of another culture.
I don't want to be living in a British enclave abroad!
When my grandfather worked in South America in the early 50's he had a translator, at the end of the 3 or 4 year contract the translator was more or less surplus to requirements as he had used them as a way to learn Spanish.
Taking the trouble to learn the language goes a very long way imho.
Taking the trouble to learn the language goes a very long way imho.
I live in Portugal, residents don't need to speak a certain level of Portuguese, otoh to become a citizen you must be able to speak and pass an exam to prove it.
I think that is a good way to handle it tbh, as I'm fick;¬]
Eta voted no. and a q for those voting yes, does your vote change for other countries? I'm thinking China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Greece etc. Ie not easy to get fluent in those in a short time.
Ps, Portuguese is difficult too, sadly....
I think that is a good way to handle it tbh, as I'm fick;¬]
Eta voted no. and a q for those voting yes, does your vote change for other countries? I'm thinking China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Greece etc. Ie not easy to get fluent in those in a short time.
Ps, Portuguese is difficult too, sadly....
Edited by dingg on Wednesday 26th July 10:31
Wouldn't be a practical rule everywhere. I live in the UAE - there's 1m Emiratis out of a population of 9.5m. Arabic is the official language, but English may as well be because nearly everyone here is from somewhere else.
I'm sure there are other similar places; but if I were to move to the French countryside, it'd get pretty lonely pretty quickly if I only spoke English.
I'm sure there are other similar places; but if I were to move to the French countryside, it'd get pretty lonely pretty quickly if I only spoke English.
Residence visa implies a short term employment linked stay, so no I don’t think it’s necessary.
For immigration, yes I think it should be a requirement as you are seeking to become a citizen of that country.
I’ve live in the uae, have not learned Arabic and have no need to do so. Govt policy is that all expats must have visas and citizenship is off the table. English is the business language, so there is no driver to factor learning a difficult language into my life/career plan.
For immigration, yes I think it should be a requirement as you are seeking to become a citizen of that country.
I’ve live in the uae, have not learned Arabic and have no need to do so. Govt policy is that all expats must have visas and citizenship is off the table. English is the business language, so there is no driver to factor learning a difficult language into my life/career plan.
I think learning the local language & customs is an absolute necessity, although probably for immigration rather than for a temporary work visa.
The trouble is, almost everywhere I have travelled in the world, most people speak English, which makes the learning process much longer....
Also, languages with non-Latin alphabets make things much more complicated - try Hebrew!
The trouble is, almost everywhere I have travelled in the world, most people speak English, which makes the learning process much longer....
Also, languages with non-Latin alphabets make things much more complicated - try Hebrew!
Eric Mc said:
Hold on folks - what language are you talking about?
There are at least FOUR languages recognised in the UK - all from these islands.
I think you’d struggle to find any of the other 3 who don’t speak (or have the ability to speak) English, at least over the age of about 5.There are at least FOUR languages recognised in the UK - all from these islands.
ETA: yes, I think at least basic mannerisms such as ‘hello’, ‘thankyou’, ‘sorry’ and ‘excuse me’ are absolute basics, even if you are just in a different country on holiday.
Edited by ChevronB19 on Wednesday 26th July 11:10
dingg said:
I live in Portugal, residents don't need to speak a certain level of Portuguese, otoh to become a citizen you must be able to speak and pass an exam to prove it.
I think that is a good way to handle it tbh, as I'm fick;¬]
Eta voted no. and a q for those voting yes, does your vote change for other countries? I'm thinking China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Greece etc. Ie not easy to get fluent in those in a short time.
Ps, Portuguese is difficult too, sadly....
Indonesia. I reckon a few hours of lessons and you could easily be up to a very basic level.I think that is a good way to handle it tbh, as I'm fick;¬]
Eta voted no. and a q for those voting yes, does your vote change for other countries? I'm thinking China, Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Greece etc. Ie not easy to get fluent in those in a short time.
Ps, Portuguese is difficult too, sadly....
Edited by dingg on Wednesday 26th July 10:31
No real tenses: I go beach today, I go beach yesterday, i go beach tomorrow.
Pronunciation is very very easy as you say what you see. Once you know how each letter sounds you can be pretty sure thats how it sounds.
C is always a ch sound, never a hard K sound, for example.
Must be one of the easiest languages to learn.
I moved to Spain and learned Spanish but living in Barcelona the locals wanted everything in Catalan (Schools teach in Catalan)
Fortunately people were willing to speak Spanish to us but it was hard work and mainly they wanted Catalan or English.
A regular restaurant we went to was fine with speaking Spanish to us when we were thought of as tourists but once they got to know us, they would answer everything in Catalan!!!
So I think people should learn the local language but taking into account how useful that really is
Fortunately people were willing to speak Spanish to us but it was hard work and mainly they wanted Catalan or English.
A regular restaurant we went to was fine with speaking Spanish to us when we were thought of as tourists but once they got to know us, they would answer everything in Catalan!!!
So I think people should learn the local language but taking into account how useful that really is
Legal requirement? to at least a basic level I would say so but surely it's just plain good manners to learn the local language.
My Family moved to Italy when I was 15 and of course we all learnt the language as it's just the right thing to do if you want to integrate, work and have friends etc.
My Dad later bought a house in Spain where he spent, probably half the year for many years and it was shocking how may expats there were around that had little grasp of the language, preferring that age old trick of speaking louder and slower in English...
My Family moved to Italy when I was 15 and of course we all learnt the language as it's just the right thing to do if you want to integrate, work and have friends etc.
My Dad later bought a house in Spain where he spent, probably half the year for many years and it was shocking how may expats there were around that had little grasp of the language, preferring that age old trick of speaking louder and slower in English...
GroundEffect said:
I believe it's the right thing to do, but I don't think you should be forced to.
I'd say it depends.It's easy to say "learn Spanish" when talking about Spain, but what about less popular and more different languages or countries that are deliberately attracting ex-pats with certain types of Visas. I.E. should you learn Tagalog if you live in the Philippines when the Filipino govt just want you there as a wealthy ex-pat or in Thailand where you can reside but never be a citizen? What about western guest workers in the UAE?
Knowing a bit of the lingo can go a long way, but it's too complex a subject to apply a blanket answer.
As for the UK, as an immigrant I can tell you there is an English Language requirement for most residence visas..if you're not from a country recognised as having English as the primary language you have to sit a test.
I have no issue with this, nor with British Ex-pats on a Thai retirement visa (A.K.A the Geezer Visa) not learning a word of Thai.
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