Espania Elections
Discussion
Can someone shed light on why they contantly flirt with right wing politics when they seem to do better with the left wing in charge?
My theory is they cant shake of the facist past and are comfortable with someone brutal telling them what to do.
Still having remnants of monarcy/church and that ilk floating about doesnt help. UK has the same problem but with less god.
My theory is they cant shake of the facist past and are comfortable with someone brutal telling them what to do.
Still having remnants of monarcy/church and that ilk floating about doesnt help. UK has the same problem but with less god.
Where did that I come from in your España? 
My OH is from Madrid so I'm living this one at the moment.
There is a significant contingent that still believe Franco was right. My Grandmother-in-law, a lovely, rich 94yo, is openly Francoist. It's a tension between her and my MIL who's very left wing.
It will take a few more decades to normalise things (read: the oldies die). Their military is very right wing too. As is the police.
Remember how long ago it was since democracy became a thing again. As baffling as that may feel to us.
My OH is from Madrid so I'm living this one at the moment.
There is a significant contingent that still believe Franco was right. My Grandmother-in-law, a lovely, rich 94yo, is openly Francoist. It's a tension between her and my MIL who's very left wing.
It will take a few more decades to normalise things (read: the oldies die). Their military is very right wing too. As is the police.
Remember how long ago it was since democracy became a thing again. As baffling as that may feel to us.
I get the feeling opinions can be very polarised. My wife's grandmother would have been a similar age to GE's MiL, but was vehemently against Franco. Not sure of the full story but the gist of it is her brother was shot for stealing an egg, this would have been back around the time of the Civil War.
My (Spanish) FiL and his sister have plenty of tales of growing up in poverty during the 40's/50's, living a hand-to-mouth existence. Find it hard to imagine that it wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking. I guess it's easy to forget how quickly Spain modernised.
My (Spanish) FiL and his sister have plenty of tales of growing up in poverty during the 40's/50's, living a hand-to-mouth existence. Find it hard to imagine that it wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking. I guess it's easy to forget how quickly Spain modernised.
Zetec-S said:
I get the feeling opinions can be very polarised. My wife's grandmother would have been a similar age to GE's MiL, but was vehemently against Franco. Not sure of the full story but the gist of it is her brother was shot for stealing an egg, this would have been back around the time of the Civil War.
My (Spanish) FiL and his sister have plenty of tales of growing up in poverty during the 40's/50's, living a hand-to-mouth existence. Find it hard to imagine that it wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking. I guess it's easy to forget how quickly Spain modernised.
My FIL grew up without running water until he was around 10. He's only 62. Used to have to take the donkey down to the well My (Spanish) FiL and his sister have plenty of tales of growing up in poverty during the 40's/50's, living a hand-to-mouth existence. Find it hard to imagine that it wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking. I guess it's easy to forget how quickly Spain modernised.
It is amazing how the place has changed.
GroundEffect said:
My FIL grew up without running water until he was around 10. He's only 62. Used to have to take the donkey down to the well
It is amazing how the place has changed.
Yes I'd forgotten about that. FIL only got running water about 25 years ago. Although the well was out the back so no donkey required It is amazing how the place has changed.
the hard right VOX party have lost 19 seats, sure the centre right party have gained 47 and the centre left/socialists/others lost a few and the hard left got a kicking but with coalition likely to be the biggest group
kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
GroundEffect said:
My FIL grew up without running water until he was around 10. He's only 62. Used to have to take the donkey down to the well
It is amazing how the place has changed.
As an aisde,..It is amazing how the place has changed.
UK - The 1967 House Conditions Survey found that 25 per cent of homes in England and Wales still lacked a bath or shower, an indoor WC, a sink and hot and cold water taps... in 1970, one in four Scots still had to share an outdoor toilet.
Earthdweller said:
the hard right VOX party have lost 19 seats, sure the centre right party have gained 47 and the centre left/socialists/others lost a few and the hard left got a kicking but with coalition likely to be the biggest group
kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
It was a real fear that Vox would do very well. My usually badly organised (Mediterranean?) OH made a point of getting to the consulate ASAP to vote. kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
vaud said:
GroundEffect said:
My FIL grew up without running water until he was around 10. He's only 62. Used to have to take the donkey down to the well
It is amazing how the place has changed.
As an aisde,..It is amazing how the place has changed.
UK - The 1967 House Conditions Survey found that 25 per cent of homes in England and Wales still lacked a bath or shower, an indoor WC, a sink and hot and cold water taps... in 1970, one in four Scots still had to share an outdoor toilet.
my parents bought a new build on the edge of town when i was about 9 prob 74 ish that had an inside bathroom upstairs, a downstairs loo and central heating!
pure luxury i tell ya
Earthdweller said:
the hard right VOX party have lost 19 seats, sure the centre right party have gained 47 and the centre left/socialists/others lost a few and the hard left got a kicking but with coalition likely to be the biggest group
kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
For some anything to the right of the Socialist Workers party is far-right...kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
ettore said:
The rise of the right is being seen across the whole of Europe (although we're going the other way as per!) - much broader than a Spanish/Franco thing.
i think it’s simpler than that it’s a reaction, the people don’t like the direction of the current mostly leftish Govs across Europe and the mostly rightish Gov in U.k.
the u.k. is having the same dissatisfaction but with a lurch to the left being the choice
not that any of the changes are likely to make a huge difference anyway
Earthdweller said:
the hard right VOX party have lost 19 seats, sure the centre right party have gained 47 and the centre left/socialists/others lost a few and the hard left got a kicking but with coalition likely to be the biggest group
kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
Well thats good then. I get my info from the UK press so a staggering lack of ability seems to be the norm now.kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
GroundEffect said:
Where did that I come from in your España?
My OH is from Madrid so I'm living this one at the moment.
There is a significant contingent that still believe Franco was right. My Grandmother-in-law, a lovely, rich 94yo, is openly Francoist. It's a tension between her and my MIL who's very left wing.
It will take a few more decades to normalise things (read: the oldies die). Their military is very right wing too. As is the police.
Remember how long ago it was since democracy became a thing again. As baffling as that may feel to us.
This. My OH is from Madrid so I'm living this one at the moment.
There is a significant contingent that still believe Franco was right. My Grandmother-in-law, a lovely, rich 94yo, is openly Francoist. It's a tension between her and my MIL who's very left wing.
It will take a few more decades to normalise things (read: the oldies die). Their military is very right wing too. As is the police.
Remember how long ago it was since democracy became a thing again. As baffling as that may feel to us.
The Spanish have always leant a bit to the right, preferring centre right governments since Franco.
This goes back to.the 2019 election where the far right Vox started taking votes away from the Centre right PP (People's Party) so the PP took a lurch to the right which annoyed the centrist and made them vote for the PSOE (Spanish Socialist Workers Party).
Vox has lost 19 seats this election but still hold the PPnto ransom as they are dependent on Vox' support and still are short 7 seats. Fejiòo's issue is that the only two parties not directly allowed with PSOE or Sumar are the Basque and Catalonian speratist parties.
I'd expect another election before too long.
Edited by captain_cynic on Monday 24th July 15:36
Fundoreen said:
Earthdweller said:
the hard right VOX party have lost 19 seats, sure the centre right party have gained 47 and the centre left/socialists/others lost a few and the hard left got a kicking but with coalition likely to be the biggest group
kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
Well thats good then. I get my info from the UK press so a staggering lack of ability seems to be the norm now.kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
Spanish politics is even more polarised than the UK, if that feels possible these days.
Earthdweller said:
the hard right VOX party have lost 19 seats, sure the centre right party have gained 47 and the centre left/socialists/others lost a few and the hard left got a kicking but with coalition likely to be the biggest group
kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
Maybe everything to the right of Mao is hard right? kind of looking like the former PM will be the next PM and a leftist coalition will, like last time, be the Government
not quite sure where your lurch to the hard right/fascism line has come from when the “hard right” has seen its vote fall sharply
But yes very little excitement. Don't know much about the Spanish centre right party, but likely as conservative as our lot.
ettore said:
The rise of the right is being seen across the whole of Europe (although we're going the other way as per!) - much broader than a Spanish/Franco thing.
Europe has seen the demise of the far right. Even when they're successful the various far right parties have been completely useless. Vox in Spain resulted in the Socialists winning. AfD in Germany fractured on the day they became the 3rd largest party in the Bundestag. LePen can't actually get elected. Italy's Five Stars are a fuster-cluck (but I grant you Italy is a fuster-cluck at the best of times). In the same time we've seen traditionally right leaning countries like Spain and Germany elect Centre-left governments and not doing badly at all.
Employment and inflation is Spain aren't too bad, the left have made a few cock ups like all govts [the self-harm over recognition of Western Sahara virtually cut off their trade with Algeria - billions in trade, like a mini-Brexit, springs to mind.] But you have to still be careful over dinner conversation as memories are recent [fathers not grandfathers] and atrocities were deep on both sides, take in some Goya at the Prado and you'll see for how long it simmered beforehand as well.
Some of their impetus has come from covid handling [Sunday quarterbacking is easy/mistakes were made; take your pick] and a lot from the immigration issues especially prevalent in Spain due to Ceuta and Melilla but also their proximity to Algerian/Moroccan coasts. This anti-immigrant stance then gets wrapped up in law & order issues, Catholicism and natalism, as it does at the fringes. Bit like if say UKIP had power here, one or two defined issues and the rest is bolt ons/make ups to look good/bad [take your pick].
Seems like a fairly bland mid-position to end up in, probably for everyones benefit.
Some of their impetus has come from covid handling [Sunday quarterbacking is easy/mistakes were made; take your pick] and a lot from the immigration issues especially prevalent in Spain due to Ceuta and Melilla but also their proximity to Algerian/Moroccan coasts. This anti-immigrant stance then gets wrapped up in law & order issues, Catholicism and natalism, as it does at the fringes. Bit like if say UKIP had power here, one or two defined issues and the rest is bolt ons/make ups to look good/bad [take your pick].
Seems like a fairly bland mid-position to end up in, probably for everyones benefit.
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