And now it's McDonalds…
Discussion
Doesn't surprise me though, McDonald's is a company that most with sense would avoid, either as a customer or to work for. I still find it staggering that anyone would eat what they sell and be happy with it, but also I find it quite telling that most litter I see is from McDonald's, which tells you a lot about the customers it attracts (I.e. selfish, uncaring and content to harm their environment for their own gain). Not much of a leap to say that those same people probably would work for the company too.
To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Edited by MikeM6 on Tuesday 18th July 06:48
There's a few McDonald's near me, and they seem to attract quite young employees:
- they can work flexible hours around study
- minn wage seems a lot when you live rent free with parents
- token reward schemes must seem appealing
- relatively unskilled, but not grotty like labouring/factory work (if there is even any factory work left?)
- absence of "career" burger flippers to do the job
So basically a 22 yo shouty manager is going to be a ball ache to work with, and will probably get away with what they can in that sort of culture.
I worked in pubs and kitchens as a teenager, and the manager /landlord was typically an imposing character who was not to be messed with - you did what they said, though if this sort of toxic culture did go on, I didn't notice it. On the basis it would have involved girls talking to me (which they generally didn't) and the only value I presented to the boss was someone who would spend 6 hours scraping crud off the industrial ovens and cooker hood without b
hing about it.
So it seems likely many workplaces have this sort of culture going on, and will probably happen anywhere where people feel they can get away with it and there's a lack of supervision.
Exposure seems the best way to stop it - give people the confidence to say no, this is not ok and being able to get support.
- they can work flexible hours around study
- minn wage seems a lot when you live rent free with parents
- token reward schemes must seem appealing
- relatively unskilled, but not grotty like labouring/factory work (if there is even any factory work left?)
- absence of "career" burger flippers to do the job
So basically a 22 yo shouty manager is going to be a ball ache to work with, and will probably get away with what they can in that sort of culture.
I worked in pubs and kitchens as a teenager, and the manager /landlord was typically an imposing character who was not to be messed with - you did what they said, though if this sort of toxic culture did go on, I didn't notice it. On the basis it would have involved girls talking to me (which they generally didn't) and the only value I presented to the boss was someone who would spend 6 hours scraping crud off the industrial ovens and cooker hood without b
hing about it.So it seems likely many workplaces have this sort of culture going on, and will probably happen anywhere where people feel they can get away with it and there's a lack of supervision.
Exposure seems the best way to stop it - give people the confidence to say no, this is not ok and being able to get support.
MikeM6 said:
Doesn't surprise me though, McDonald's is a company that most with sense would avoid, either as a customer or to work for. I still find it staggering that anyone would eat what they sell and be happy with it, but also I find it quite telling that most litter I see is from McDonald's, which tells you a lot about the customers it attracts (I.e. selfish, uncaring and content to harm their environment for their own gain). Not much of a leap to say that those same people probably would work for the company too.
To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
I got persuaded by my wife to stop off at a McDonalds in Germany recently. I hadn’t had one for many years. By god it was awful. The bread for the bun was like chewing cotton wool, the meat patties were tasteless and the fries were unpleasant. I really struggle to see the appeal but it looks like I am in the minority.To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Edited by MikeM6 on Tuesday 18th July 06:48
MikeM6 said:
Doesn't surprise me though, McDonald's is a company that most with sense would avoid, either as a customer or to work for. I still find it staggering that anyone would eat what they sell and be happy with it, but also I find it quite telling that most litter I see is from McDonald's, which tells you a lot about the customers it attracts (I.e. selfish, uncaring and content to harm their environment for their own gain). Not much of a leap to say that those same people probably would work for the company too.
To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Going back a long time, but I worked at one in the 80's. One of only a handful in the country back then.To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Edited by MikeM6 on Tuesday 18th July 06:48
Great place to work and for the time, it had quite a progressive employment structure - promotion form shop floor, paid mat leave, good shift allowances and decent holiday. Full timers also got various in service benefits.
The situation now, is that very few are directly operated and most are franchises, which means you are at the mercy of the franchisee and whether they are decent employers. They will have to provide set pay and conditions under the franchise agreement / brand standards. but poor management can easily create a toxic workplace.
It'll be an interesting one this.
At any one time there are something like over 150k people working at a McDs. Extrapolate that out to people who have worked there in the past and it is an enormous number, even restricting it to the most recent 5 years you are probably looking at several hundred thousand people.
Huge pool.
It's also a pool that comprises of young people moving forward and older people not moving forward and a heavy weighting towards the lower socio economic groups in U.K. society.
To find 100 people who have been subjected to sexual experiences they did not invite or enjoy when that ranges from the illegal through the unacceptable down to 'bants' and ultimately at the very bottom some woke guff actually seems incredibly low. You'd expect it to be in the thousands if not tens of thousands when including past workers. So we can assume many more will now step forward.
I have a friend who owns some of the franchises and there is another side to the story which is that you can't fire these people and in some cases you can't even not hire them. You end up hiring people you don't want to as they won't fit the dynamic but you have no legal grounds for discrimination. You can't not hire the dodgy looking 50 year old just because you run a team that's 90% under 20, mostly female and you fear for them. That's clear discrimination.
Once they're in, getting them out is really difficult. You can just bin someone because you fervently believe they're a wrongun and employees have told you they've done something unpleasant or unacceptable. Like teachers and other employees that are difficult to fire the easiest solution is to move them on to a different unit.
On top of having a large pool of staff from socio-economic backgrounds where talking filth, being overly tactile and using biffa bins as sex aids there are also some staff just too thick to be reprogrammed.
Generally, I think MacDs does an excellent job of managing its staff and supplies essential work for a diverse group of local individuals and while it is unacceptable for anyone to be touched/frotted in the work place or to be the subject of unpleasant words or actions there is an argument that good employers can only properly protect their employees if they have the powers to dispose of wronguns without fear of retribution.
I suspect HR at this level is an absolute minefield and a serious dark art requiring huge skill.
At any one time there are something like over 150k people working at a McDs. Extrapolate that out to people who have worked there in the past and it is an enormous number, even restricting it to the most recent 5 years you are probably looking at several hundred thousand people.
Huge pool.
It's also a pool that comprises of young people moving forward and older people not moving forward and a heavy weighting towards the lower socio economic groups in U.K. society.
To find 100 people who have been subjected to sexual experiences they did not invite or enjoy when that ranges from the illegal through the unacceptable down to 'bants' and ultimately at the very bottom some woke guff actually seems incredibly low. You'd expect it to be in the thousands if not tens of thousands when including past workers. So we can assume many more will now step forward.
I have a friend who owns some of the franchises and there is another side to the story which is that you can't fire these people and in some cases you can't even not hire them. You end up hiring people you don't want to as they won't fit the dynamic but you have no legal grounds for discrimination. You can't not hire the dodgy looking 50 year old just because you run a team that's 90% under 20, mostly female and you fear for them. That's clear discrimination.
Once they're in, getting them out is really difficult. You can just bin someone because you fervently believe they're a wrongun and employees have told you they've done something unpleasant or unacceptable. Like teachers and other employees that are difficult to fire the easiest solution is to move them on to a different unit.
On top of having a large pool of staff from socio-economic backgrounds where talking filth, being overly tactile and using biffa bins as sex aids there are also some staff just too thick to be reprogrammed.
Generally, I think MacDs does an excellent job of managing its staff and supplies essential work for a diverse group of local individuals and while it is unacceptable for anyone to be touched/frotted in the work place or to be the subject of unpleasant words or actions there is an argument that good employers can only properly protect their employees if they have the powers to dispose of wronguns without fear of retribution.
I suspect HR at this level is an absolute minefield and a serious dark art requiring huge skill.
One of my friends started at McDonalds back in the 80's and didn't even last a whole day due to his abusive and rude manager. He told the manager to fk off, stick his pokey job and then threatened the manager saying that if he ever saw him in the streets he'd put him in hospital. This turned the bully into a crying baby which all the other employees loved.
About 2 years ago I was in the McDonalds on Horley Road, Redhill and the manager was incredibly rude to her staff, to the point that one of them said "If you speak to me like that again, I'll quit." There were about 5 of us waiting for our meals and we all looked at each other thinking "Did she really speak to her employee like that?" So I said to the employee in front of his manager, take my number if you want a witness. And the other 4 customers also offered their numbers.
k off, stick his pokey job and then threatened the manager saying that if he ever saw him in the streets he'd put him in hospital. This turned the bully into a crying baby which all the other employees loved.About 2 years ago I was in the McDonalds on Horley Road, Redhill and the manager was incredibly rude to her staff, to the point that one of them said "If you speak to me like that again, I'll quit." There were about 5 of us waiting for our meals and we all looked at each other thinking "Did she really speak to her employee like that?" So I said to the employee in front of his manager, take my number if you want a witness. And the other 4 customers also offered their numbers.
Castrol for a knave said:
Going back a long time, but I worked at one in the 80's. One of only a handful in the country back then.
Great place to work and for the time, it had quite a progressive employment structure - promotion form shop floor, paid mat leave, good shift allowances and decent holiday. Full timers also got various in service benefits.
The situation now, is that very few are directly operated and most are franchises, which means you are at the mercy of the franchisee and whether they are decent employers. They will have to provide set pay and conditions under the franchise agreement / brand standards. but poor management can easily create a toxic workplace.
Must have been around 1981 when I went to look around behind the scenes at a McDonalds as part of a management course at college. It was seen to be the perfect role model at the time, exactly as you say, and it did seem like a good place to work. Sad to see it has gone downhill since. The last time I was in one was off the M20 on the way back from Le Mans when not much else was open. Sure enough it was packed and the displays were you order your food weren't giving receipts or showing the order number, so getting your food was a free for all. You would thought the manager would take charge and stop people using them until order had been restored, but no, the orders kept piling in with no way of telling whose was whose. They refused to take orders at the counter too, so it was chaos. Luckily, by a complete fluke, I got my order, my mate was not so lucky and just got a refund. We stopped at another services later and saw a KFC that had the same problem with the displays, but they seemed to have someone sensible working there, and had put notices on all the machines to ask that you order at the counter. Simple really.Great place to work and for the time, it had quite a progressive employment structure - promotion form shop floor, paid mat leave, good shift allowances and decent holiday. Full timers also got various in service benefits.
The situation now, is that very few are directly operated and most are franchises, which means you are at the mercy of the franchisee and whether they are decent employers. They will have to provide set pay and conditions under the franchise agreement / brand standards. but poor management can easily create a toxic workplace.
DonkeyApple said:
It'll be an interesting one this.
At any one time there are something like over 150k people working at a McDs. Extrapolate that out to people who have worked there in the past and it is an enormous number, even restricting it to the most recent 5 years you are probably looking at several hundred thousand people.
Huge pool.
It's also a pool that comprises of young people moving forward and older people not moving forward and a heavy weighting towards the lower socio economic groups in U.K. society.
To find 100 people who have been subjected to sexual experiences they did not invite or enjoy when that ranges from the illegal through the unacceptable down to 'bants' and ultimately at the very bottom some woke guff actually seems incredibly low. You'd expect it to be in the thousands if not tens of thousands when including past workers. So we can assume many more will now step forward.
I have a friend who owns some of the franchises and there is another side to the story which is that you can't fire these people and in some cases you can't even not hire them. You end up hiring people you don't want to as they won't fit the dynamic but you have no legal grounds for discrimination. You can't not hire the dodgy looking 50 year old just because you run a team that's 90% under 20, mostly female and you fear for them. That's clear discrimination.
Once they're in, getting them out is really difficult. You can just bin someone because you fervently believe they're a wrongun and employees have told you they've done something unpleasant or unacceptable. Like teachers and other employees that are difficult to fire the easiest solution is to move them on to a different unit.
On top of having a large pool of staff from socio-economic backgrounds where talking filth, being overly tactile and using biffa bins as sex aids there are also some staff just too thick to be reprogrammed.
Generally, I think MacDs does an excellent job of managing its staff and supplies essential work for a diverse group of local individuals and while it is unacceptable for anyone to be touched/frotted in the work place or to be the subject of unpleasant words or actions there is an argument that good employers can only properly protect their employees if they have the powers to dispose of wronguns without fear of retribution.
I suspect HR at this level is an absolute minefield and a serious dark art requiring huge skill.
Nor should you. You discipline and dismiss people on the basis of their behaviour.At any one time there are something like over 150k people working at a McDs. Extrapolate that out to people who have worked there in the past and it is an enormous number, even restricting it to the most recent 5 years you are probably looking at several hundred thousand people.
Huge pool.
It's also a pool that comprises of young people moving forward and older people not moving forward and a heavy weighting towards the lower socio economic groups in U.K. society.
To find 100 people who have been subjected to sexual experiences they did not invite or enjoy when that ranges from the illegal through the unacceptable down to 'bants' and ultimately at the very bottom some woke guff actually seems incredibly low. You'd expect it to be in the thousands if not tens of thousands when including past workers. So we can assume many more will now step forward.
I have a friend who owns some of the franchises and there is another side to the story which is that you can't fire these people and in some cases you can't even not hire them. You end up hiring people you don't want to as they won't fit the dynamic but you have no legal grounds for discrimination. You can't not hire the dodgy looking 50 year old just because you run a team that's 90% under 20, mostly female and you fear for them. That's clear discrimination.
Once they're in, getting them out is really difficult. You can just bin someone because you fervently believe they're a wrongun and employees have told you they've done something unpleasant or unacceptable. Like teachers and other employees that are difficult to fire the easiest solution is to move them on to a different unit.
On top of having a large pool of staff from socio-economic backgrounds where talking filth, being overly tactile and using biffa bins as sex aids there are also some staff just too thick to be reprogrammed.
Generally, I think MacDs does an excellent job of managing its staff and supplies essential work for a diverse group of local individuals and while it is unacceptable for anyone to be touched/frotted in the work place or to be the subject of unpleasant words or actions there is an argument that good employers can only properly protect their employees if they have the powers to dispose of wronguns without fear of retribution.
I suspect HR at this level is an absolute minefield and a serious dark art requiring huge skill.
It really isn't difficult and if it's not happening it's just a reflection on poor management.
Unreal said:
Nor should you. You discipline and dismiss people on the basis of their behaviour.
It really isn't difficult and if it's not happening it's just a reflection on poor management.
It’s unsurprisingly not as straightforward as you claim; my wife is the managing director of a hospitality company with 200 staff and getting rid of problematic staff can be a nightmare. She has 30 years experience in the industry and is highly regarded so I tend to believe her, not least because I have to listen to the issues she deals with all too frequently!It really isn't difficult and if it's not happening it's just a reflection on poor management.
MikeM6 said:
Doesn't surprise me though, McDonald's is a company that most with sense would avoid, either as a customer or to work for. I still find it staggering that anyone would eat what they sell and be happy with it, but also I find it quite telling that most litter I see is from McDonald's, which tells you a lot about the customers it attracts (I.e. selfish, uncaring and content to harm their environment for their own gain). Not much of a leap to say that those same people probably would work for the company too.
To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Much tar on brush ...To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Edited by MikeM6 on Tuesday 18th July 06:48
Unreal said:
Nor should you. You discipline and dismiss people on the basis of their behaviour.
It really isn't difficult and if it's not happening it's just a reflection on poor management.
It's a lot harder than one may imagine. First you are reliant on other staff coming forward which as you can see from this article they often don't, opting to leave instead and only reveal the issue at a later date. It really isn't difficult and if it's not happening it's just a reflection on poor management.
You then have to prove intent opposed to accidental frotting and do so in a manner that cannot be argued to have been personalised.
then you have to consider the immense spread of employee types and take into account their ages, cultural backgrounds etc as well as their intellect.
Of course there will be failures of management and one isn't seeking to absolve poor management but only putting forward the fact that binning a wrongun is simply not easy and one can imagine that the highly transient nature of employees in this industry tends to mean victims and victimisers often move on before any full and legally compliant process can be completed.
MikeM6 said:
Doesn't surprise me though, McDonald's is a company that most with sense would avoid, either as a customer or to work for. I still find it staggering that anyone would eat what they sell and be happy with it, but also I find it quite telling that most litter I see is from McDonald's, which tells you a lot about the customers it attracts (I.e. selfish, uncaring and content to harm their environment for their own gain). Not much of a leap to say that those same people probably would work for the company too.
To hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Ah well, I love McDonalds, especially the shakes and ice cream, don't care what snooty people thinkTo hear that abuse happens at such a company is like saying cost cutting happens at Primark.
Edited by MikeM6 on Tuesday 18th July 06:48
I was talking to a lad Friday who worked at MacD's for years and said it was one of the best places he had ever worked (he is now a maintenance manager for a hotel chain). He said the staff were friendly and supportive and if you wanted to go up the ladder it had an excellent management training scheme.
I realise MacDonalds don't taste like oysters and fois gras, and that the refined tastes of some on here exclude all peasant foods, but I absolutely love them myself.
I realise MacDonalds don't taste like oysters and fois gras, and that the refined tastes of some on here exclude all peasant foods, but I absolutely love them myself.
Worked there late 80's to early 90's all through college and university, lots of internal promotion and staff benefits; I had my tonsils removed via my McDonald's private health care as a student 
I also had short stints at Burger King and Wimpy before that, but they were franchises and far worse environments in which to work.
I also had short stints at Burger King and Wimpy before that, but they were franchises and far worse environments in which to work.
robsa said:
I was talking to a lad Friday who worked at MacD's for years and said it was one of the best places he had ever worked (he is now a maintenance manager for a hotel chain). He said the staff were friendly and supportive and if you wanted to go up the ladder it had an excellent management training scheme.
I realise MacDonalds don't taste like oysters and fois gras, and that the refined tastes of some on here exclude all peasant foods, but I absolutely love them myself.
I realise MacDonalds don't taste like oysters and fois gras, and that the refined tastes of some on here exclude all peasant foods, but I absolutely love them myself.
That was my experience. It was hard work but found them to be a decent company and paid pretty well for high street working. Career progression was good to I'd you wanted it.
Was flirty on occasion as has been in any company I've worked for but never to far that I seen. In fact my line managers would keep everyone inline and protect workers tbh.
robsa said:
I was talking to a lad Friday who worked at MacD's for years and said it was one of the best places he had ever worked (he is now a maintenance manager for a hotel chain). He said the staff were friendly and supportive and if you wanted to go up the ladder it had an excellent management training scheme.
I realise MacDonalds don't taste like oysters and fois gras, and that the refined tastes of some on here exclude all peasant foods, but I absolutely love them myself.
Yup. Put the faux snobbery to one side and what you have is a pretty important local employer for a range of reasons that start with basic work for locals, through gig jobs for students and kids just out of school wanting to make something of their life to those who use it as a paid source of education to move onto higher roles in hospitality etc. I realise MacDonalds don't taste like oysters and fois gras, and that the refined tastes of some on here exclude all peasant foods, but I absolutely love them myself.
I make a point of highlighting to my children that the kid who gets up early on a weekend morning or works late on a weekend or weekday evening is the polar opposite of a loser who stays in bed and combines that with a latent expectation that others should be giving them money.
Where we live I have been to the three nearby drive thrus. One is on the outskirts of the local rough town and appears to mostly employ locals of a wide age range. Always polite and always managing service with a smile. There is another along an A road which seems to be mostly local youngsters and they always seem to be having a laugh and the third is in the nicer town and appears to be very public school and student dominated and nice people. There is one that I have used a few times on the A40 coming out of London and again they're mostly kids working with a smile and nice to chat to. I'm sure that there are plenty which are less pleasant but within reason it's a basic job that almost anyone can get and where the person can make of it what they wish.
I genuinely would have thought that the base and unacceptable behaviour would have been more prevalent than the article implies. But it is essential to highlight these issues and maintain constant pressure and oversight on employers as it can always be better.
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