How long will the joy last?
Discussion
Pit Pony said:
All the young people will realise is that life is a b
h and then you die.
I'd always support a Labour government before a tory one, because at least their intentions are honorable even if impossible.
The last government was most honourably responsible for 100s of thousands of deaths, spending all our gold reserves and the 2008 economic crash. h and then you die. I'd always support a Labour government before a tory one, because at least their intentions are honorable even if impossible.
This is a clever way to frame the question, OP. Just focussing on the economy, the general public voting for a change of government will undoubtedly want to see 5 impossible things happen:
1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 16th July 07:38
Labour will do pretty much what they did last time, ie not a vast amount of difference to the previous tory govt.
Then they'll become unpopular, get voted out and leave another "there's nothing left" note in the drawer, and the tories will get back in.. etc etc.. ad infinitum
Very easy shouting from the sidelines and making promises prior to elections but very difficult in practice to make significant changes.
The first few years of Blair and Brown did feel different and special tbh, but ultimately went exactly the same way as many others.
Keith Starmer appears to be semi sensible, Angela Rayner gives me the shivers thinking she'll be deputy, but at least it's not chuffing Dianne Abbot..
Then they'll become unpopular, get voted out and leave another "there's nothing left" note in the drawer, and the tories will get back in.. etc etc.. ad infinitum
Very easy shouting from the sidelines and making promises prior to elections but very difficult in practice to make significant changes.
The first few years of Blair and Brown did feel different and special tbh, but ultimately went exactly the same way as many others.
Keith Starmer appears to be semi sensible, Angela Rayner gives me the shivers thinking she'll be deputy, but at least it's not chuffing Dianne Abbot..
67Dino said:
This is a clever way to frame the question, OP. Just focussing on the economy, the general public voting for a change of government will undoubtedly want to see 5 impossible things happen:
1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
Perfect summary!1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 16th July 07:38
I think we are probably headed in the same direction as Italy, with a permanently non-functioning government despite which things still happen and people get on with their lives. National politics will end up as a branch of the entertainment industry, something to fill the newspaper gossip columns. We're almost there now.
200Plus Club said:
67Dino said:
This is a clever way to frame the question, OP. Just focussing on the economy, the general public voting for a change of government will undoubtedly want to see 5 impossible things happen:
…
Perfect summary!…
I would really like to see a performance dashboard that measures the current government against previous, showing KPIs measured independently which they can be held to account on.
If we had that at least, it might make it easier to determine which party is closer to achieving anything positive.
As for the OP question, at this point in time we may well be better off under labour, but that is like saying that we are better of with a hydrolocked engine than having had the car burn down.
If we had that at least, it might make it easier to determine which party is closer to achieving anything positive.
As for the OP question, at this point in time we may well be better off under labour, but that is like saying that we are better of with a hydrolocked engine than having had the car burn down.
67Dino said:
This is a clever way to frame the question, OP. Just focussing on the economy, the general public voting for a change of government will undoubtedly want to see 5 impossible things happen:
1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
Thanks and yes spot on 1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 16th July 07:38
230TE said:
I think we are probably headed in the same direction as Italy, with a permanently non-functioning government despite which things still happen and people get on with their lives. National politics will end up as a branch of the entertainment industry, something to fill the newspaper gossip columns. We're almost there now.
I’m hoping for PR then they can argue amongst themselves and leave the rest of to get on with our lives..People get too hooked up on policies & ideas. No point they're not binding and who knows what the future brings.
It's about a vison, philosophy, integrity and leadership.
I want to believe in my government, show me those qualities and you'll secure my vote.
The 'ED Stone' method of campaigning is pointless.
New ideas are just old ones with a different wrapper.
It's about a vison, philosophy, integrity and leadership.
I want to believe in my government, show me those qualities and you'll secure my vote.
The 'ED Stone' method of campaigning is pointless.
New ideas are just old ones with a different wrapper.
Ivan stewart said:
NerveAgent said:
OP do you often spend your Sunday mornings getting worked up about things that haven’t even happened?
I’m not worked up!! Two things think it’s a given that labour will get in and a lot of younger voters are going to be a little wiser in a couple of years!!
67Dino said:
This is a clever way to frame the question, OP. Just focussing on the economy, the general public voting for a change of government will undoubtedly want to see 5 impossible things happen:
1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
Labour will (I suspect) raise some taxes for a little window dressing to reflect Labour values. And I think they will borrow in their first term on the basis it will be a relatively small portion of public debt, in a landscape where we need some time and some drastic economic changes to really be able to address public debt. I’m also not sure which of the parties would have an appetite for the rejoin referendum (although I’d welcome it in a heart beat).1. Higher wages - any gains will be wiped out (again) by inflation, yet with a weakening economy, it won’t support high pay rises in either public or private sector
2. Prices to drop - people will expect prices to drop back, when in reality the best they can hope for is lower rises as inflation eases
3. No more taxes - the tax burden is already high, and outside a few taxes on the rich, even green taxes won’t be acceptable, yet more borrowing isn’t an option either
4. Economic growth - noone wants to see a recession or even stagnant growth, but it will be hard for us to match other countries given UK’s low productivity and Brexit
5. Better public services - given rising costs and public sector pay, and the inability to raise taxes or grow the economy, this then becomes impossible to achieve.
Labour can no more achieve those than the Conservatives could, which will create rapid public disillusion with them. Add on a few other thorny issues that Labour especially will struggle with - migration, transgender rights, strike laws, defence costs - and they have an almost perfect storm.
I predict a short and stormy period for Labour followed by a Conservative government that in for its second term offers a referendum on returning to the EU.
Edited by 67Dino on Sunday 16th July 07:38
The system is a mess. We have the two parties blending left and right policies (migrants to Rawanda, and huge taxes). It does feel like nothing significant changes until there is a genuine reform of the system.
Heathwood said:
Indeed, Labour will just spend the next term highlighting that they’re trying to mop up the mess left behind by the Tories, but it will eventually come to realisation that it’s very easy to hurl abuse from the sidelines but another matter to be managing the game.
The current government still bang on about the last Labour one, even though it was 13 years ago.There won't be any joy. Possibly some relief. For a bit.
It might be 4D chess to subtly introduce some changes eventually, but we could do with a tiny sliver of meat being chucked at us.
As for the young being dim and naive enough to vote for them, that's harder to sell than the last time Labour got in. We have copious and pungent evidence of Conservatism's benefits to draw on.
Anyone looking back on this adminstration with dewy-eyed nostalgia will justify a medical intervention.
200Plus Club said:
Very easy shouting from the sidelines and making promises prior to elections but very difficult in practice to make significant changes.
But Labour haven't really promised anything. Or come out with anything of substance. They don't appear to stand for anything at all. It might be 4D chess to subtly introduce some changes eventually, but we could do with a tiny sliver of meat being chucked at us.
As for the young being dim and naive enough to vote for them, that's harder to sell than the last time Labour got in. We have copious and pungent evidence of Conservatism's benefits to draw on.
Anyone looking back on this adminstration with dewy-eyed nostalgia will justify a medical intervention.
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