Harrogate Marxists...
Discussion
I wouldn't have picked Harrogate as the core of the Fourth International, vanguard of the proletarian revolution. But what do I know?
"Managers, business owners and retirees of Harrogate, unite! You have nothing to lose but your brunch! Rise up, expropriate Betty's Tea Room and seize the means of production...of spring water!!!"
"Managers, business owners and retirees of Harrogate, unite! You have nothing to lose but your brunch! Rise up, expropriate Betty's Tea Room and seize the means of production...of spring water!!!"
2xChevrons said:
I wouldn't have picked Harrogate as the core of the Fourth International, vanguard of the proletarian revolution. But what do I know?
"Managers, business owners and retirees of Harrogate, unite! You have nothing to lose but your brunch! Rise up, expropriate Betty's Tea Room and seize the means of production...of spring water!!!"
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, we keep our red flowers watered here"Managers, business owners and retirees of Harrogate, unite! You have nothing to lose but your brunch! Rise up, expropriate Betty's Tea Room and seize the means of production...of spring water!!!"
Supercilious Sid said:
CT05 Nose Cone said:
Look, I know every single time Communism has been tried it ends up as a murderous dictatorship where they have to build walls to stop people escaping, but next time will be different, ok?
You should know that proper communism hasn't been tried yet. 
Chunkychucky said:
From Harrogate, North Yorkshire this morning. Good to see them getting themselves organised for once.
I’m not sure that the large number of people in the U.K. who have fled with their lives from the brutal horrors of Communist regimes around the world, (my Wife and many of her friends included), would consider it to be “good” that Communists in the U.K. are “getting themselves organised”.The funny thing about communism is that it’s only those who have never experienced it that seem to want it.
Those that have, don’t.
bstb3 said:
Mr Whippy said:
Funny how they want communism but we already have it via crony capitalism.
Why they believe other types of elected leaders choosing winners and losers will be better is beyond my comprehension.
Well because they will be the leaders, comrade.Why they believe other types of elected leaders choosing winners and losers will be better is beyond my comprehension.
I’d go along for the laugh but don’t want Mi5 or Mi6 or whoever will be there thinking I’m a serious revolutionary commie
TEKNOPUG said:
Silvanus said:
Cuba probably came closest, close but no cigar
It was only viable because it was being bankrolled by the Soviet Union. Otherwise the revolution wouldn't have lasted 6 months.NK still appears to be a worker's paradise though....
How about China? Questionable whether they really could as communist anymore though.
Skeptisk said:
It might have been viable if the US had not interfered.
How about China? Questionable whether they really could as communist anymore though.
Cuba is an interesting case. Not only because it is virtually the last 'traditional' Marxist-Leninist command economy left (along with whatever the hell North Korea is now) and has managed to stay that way despite being less than 100 miles off the US coast, against the track record of what happens to socialist countries in the Americas (not for want of trying on Uncle Sam's part, of course).How about China? Questionable whether they really could as communist anymore though.
But it's also, consistently, produces general HDI scores far above the normal for a country of its GDP. It used to be that Cuba led south and central America (and sometimes the Americas as a whole) in things like literacy, healthcare access, child mortality, life exceptancy, average calorie intake and so on. Of course it led the region in many of those things before the revolution as well. Because Cuba's GDP has essentially flatlined since the 1960s, and took a severe hit in the 1990s following the collapse of the USSR, other nations in South and Central America have surpassed it in GDP and in some of those HDI metrics. But Cuba still punches way, way above its economic weight in terms of social and HDI outcomes. It's also the only (at least was the only a few years ago) country with a 'developed' HDI rating to also have an ecologically sustainable economy.
As to why Cuba has not made meaningful economic gains over the past 60 years. Well, take your pick - it's been embargoed by most of the developed world and has been 30 years without a main trading partner. The brain drain of educated professionals and academics in the wake of the revolution. The command economy never being able to just pull levers and command growth and productivity. Sympathisers would say that the Cuban project was never about economic growth anyway, so the broader goal has been met.
As for China - definitely not communist (but communism is an end state that has never been reached). Not noticeably Marxist any more. Probably just about definable as a form of 'democratic' socialism (heavy on the inverted commas) with a state capitalist economy, same as the post-Stalin USSR.
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