Teacher stabbed School in Lockdown, Tewkesbury
Discussion
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-sch...
Update for anyone interested. My daughter (teacher, not at this school) just let me know it's a large special needs school caters for 7-19yr olds and Ofsted rates it 'Outstanding'.
Update for anyone interested. My daughter (teacher, not at this school) just let me know it's a large special needs school caters for 7-19yr olds and Ofsted rates it 'Outstanding'.
Edited by dandarez on Monday 10th July 11:54
Another update. Student reportedly arrested 5 miles from the school.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/10/tewkes...
Also it's reported ^ as a (the) secondary school in Tewks.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/10/tewkes...
Also it's reported ^ as a (the) secondary school in Tewks.
Teacher stabbed in the corridor at school by a 15 year old male pupil and taken to hospital, detained, released.
The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
turbobloke said:
Teacher stabbed in the corridor at school by a 15 year old male pupil and taken to hospital, detained, released.
The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
?? The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
Perhaps wait for the details of the case to be released rather than jump to a conclusion based on what you have read in the media. You might of course be right but you absolutely do not have sufficient information to reach any conclusion at this stage.
Checkng online, there's this.
An offence against the person is the legal term used to describe a number of violent crimes. These are:
Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) – Wounding with intent
Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) – Wounding without intent
Actual Bodily Harm (ABH)
Common Assault
[quote=Bell Lamb and Joynson Solicitors]There are two types of grievous bodily harm (GBH). The less serious type is called section 20 and applies where a person injures or wounds another person, and the injuries are too severe to be ABH. For example, causing cuts and bruises to a person may be ABH, but a stab wound is more likely to be GBH.
Assault, ABH & GBH Defence - Bell Lamb & Joynson Solicitors
02 Mar 2023
IIRC the GBH offence carries a potential life sentence, which wouldn't be imposed, but would bring home the seriousness of what happened to the young offender and others thinking of doing the same.
In the interests of balance I've attempted to picture the pupil walking up to the teacher with a knife in one hand and a diagram of human anatomy in the other, to 'attempt' to ensure no major blood vessels or organs would be hit. Unlike the 'attempted' wounding with intent, it wasn't successful.
An offence against the person is the legal term used to describe a number of violent crimes. These are:
Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) – Wounding with intent
Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) – Wounding without intent
Actual Bodily Harm (ABH)
Common Assault
[quote=Bell Lamb and Joynson Solicitors]There are two types of grievous bodily harm (GBH). The less serious type is called section 20 and applies where a person injures or wounds another person, and the injuries are too severe to be ABH. For example, causing cuts and bruises to a person may be ABH, but a stab wound is more likely to be GBH.
Assault, ABH & GBH Defence - Bell Lamb & Joynson Solicitors
02 Mar 2023
IIRC the GBH offence carries a potential life sentence, which wouldn't be imposed, but would bring home the seriousness of what happened to the young offender and others thinking of doing the same.
In the interests of balance I've attempted to picture the pupil walking up to the teacher with a knife in one hand and a diagram of human anatomy in the other, to 'attempt' to ensure no major blood vessels or organs would be hit. Unlike the 'attempted' wounding with intent, it wasn't successful.
pghstochaj said:
turbobloke said:
Teacher stabbed in the corridor at school by a 15 year old male pupil and taken to hospital, detained, released.
The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
?? The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
Perhaps wait for the details of the case to be released rather than jump to a conclusion based on what you have read in the media. You might of course be right but you absolutely do not have sufficient information to reach any conclusion at this stage.
i read that the stabbing was successful, not attempted, that the teacher spent time in hospital as opposed to the blade bouncing off their clothing/skin, and read online from a solicitor's wensite that a stabbing can warrant a charge of GBH. This was posted earlier.
Like the CPS decisions, your post may be well-intentioned but it ignores highly credible evidence and information already available. I don't believe that the media made up the story of the stabbing, or of the actual wounding and hospitalisation of the victim, nor do I believe that the solicitors made up their account of wounding offences and their applicability. Do you? The pupil is older than 12 and legged it so knows right from wrong. Get a grip? Though like the CPS, nobody should hold any breath on that score.
poo at Paul's said:
Presumably the ‘intent’ part is because the pupil came to school with a knife or blade.
So why not charge them with possession of such an items too, which is an offence in itself?
Aye. As I read it, the pupil has indeed been charged with possession of a bladed article. However according to one line of opinion that might be media lies.So why not charge them with possession of such an items too, which is an offence in itself?
turbobloke said:
poo at Paul's said:
Presumably the ‘intent’ part is because the pupil came to school with a knife or blade.
So why not charge them with possession of such an items too, which is an offence in itself?
Aye. As I read it, the pupil has indeed been charged with possession of a bladed article. However according to one line of opinion that might be media lies.So why not charge them with possession of such an items too, which is an offence in itself?
turbobloke said:
pghstochaj said:
turbobloke said:
Teacher stabbed in the corridor at school by a 15 year old male pupil and taken to hospital, detained, released.
The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
?? The pupil was arrested in Stoke Orchard 5 miles from the school in Tewkesbury on suspicion of attempted murder.
So far, so good.
Today the remanded pupil will appear at Cheltenham Magistrates Court charged with attempted wounding with intent and possession of a bladed article.
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
Perhaps wait for the details of the case to be released rather than jump to a conclusion based on what you have read in the media. You might of course be right but you absolutely do not have sufficient information to reach any conclusion at this stage.
i read that the stabbing was successful, not attempted, that the teacher spent time in hospital as opposed to the blade bouncing off their clothing/skin, and read online from a solicitor's wensite that a stabbing can warrant a charge of GBH. This was posted earlier.
Like the CPS decisions, your post may be well-intentioned but it ignores highly credible evidence and information already available. I don't believe that the media made up the story of the stabbing, or of the actual wounding and hospitalisation of the victim, nor do I believe that the solicitors made up their account of wounding offences and their applicability. Do you? The pupil is older than 12 and legged it so knows right from wrong. Get a grip? Though like the CPS, nobody should hold any breath on that score.
Both views can be true. CPS are no doubt charging with the offences which with their knowledge and experience they believe will lead to guilty verdicts. As members of the public we are perfectly entitled to believe this leads to too lenient a result.
My own view is that use of a knife should lead to a default charge of attempted murder unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, such as use of a 2cm blade in an unlikely to be fatal place or obviously messing about rather than any intent to harm. However I accept that this is not how the law works and it might be problematic if it did.
My own view is that use of a knife should lead to a default charge of attempted murder unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, such as use of a 2cm blade in an unlikely to be fatal place or obviously messing about rather than any intent to harm. However I accept that this is not how the law works and it might be problematic if it did.
mac96 said:
Both views can be true. CPS are no doubt charging with the offences which with their knowledge and experience they believe will lead to guilty verdicts. As members of the public we are perfectly entitled to believe this leads to too lenient a result.
My own view is that use of a knife should lead to a default charge of attempted murder unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, such as use of a 2cm blade in an unlikely to be fatal place or obviously messing about rather than any intent to harm. However I accept that this is not how the law works and it might be problematic if it did.
It's not an opinion if you do not have information. It is a flaw in modern society that people think they have a valid opinion despite having limited or not information, and/or having no background in a topic. Wait until information on the case is released and then try to form an opinion on whether you agree with the charges, at least that way, even if you do not have a background in a topic, you have some relevant information. My own view is that use of a knife should lead to a default charge of attempted murder unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, such as use of a 2cm blade in an unlikely to be fatal place or obviously messing about rather than any intent to harm. However I accept that this is not how the law works and it might be problematic if it did.
Murder requires the intent to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm. Attempted murder requires the intent to kill - doing something you intended to cause GBH but not to kill, even if it could have killed, is not attempted murder. That's quite a high bar, especially with a young person. I don't know whether the statement in the OP's post about it being a special needs school is correct, there's nothing to that effect on their website, but if it is the case and the kid was arguably not able to fully understand the consequences of stabbing someone, it gets harder to prove beyond reasonable doubt that their intention was to kill.
mikey_b said:
Post number 1 in this thread suggests it's a special needs school. If a pupil is 'special' enough to be sent to such a school, perhaps that has a bearing on the type of charge the CPS has brought?
After that, it looks like Tewkesbury School (mainstream secondary) and not Ofsted Outstanding but RI.https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/glouces...
What school is at the centre of the incident?
Tewkesbury School - also known as Tewkesbury Academy -
is a state secondary school for 11 to 18 year olds, is part of
the Cabot Learning Federation, a multi-academy trust responsible
for a number of academies in the South West of England.
A recent Ofsted report, published in January, rated the mixed
comprehensive school as ‘requires improvement’.
MrBogSmith said:
turbobloke said:
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
Given your expertise in everything naturally includes inchoate offences, which charge would you suggest? I posted content from solicitors which you might have accidentally missed, and based my comment on the expertise of a law company. That's also about the time when I suggested an alternative, also based on legal content online.
If there are any remaining objections based on your expertise in everything, given it looks like you weren't agreeing enthusiastically, they can be directed to the solicitors in question as their corporate identity was given in my post.
MrBogSmith said:
Here's one scenario you won't find when you have to rely on a basic Google search to form the basis your 'knowledge'.
Actual Bodily Harm injuries can be quite serious before they venture into Grievous Bodily Harm.
It is possible that the CPS judge the level of injury to the teacher as being ABH (possibly pre-medical evidence from the medical experts).
So the CPS are faced with a decision.
1) Charge with ABH which carries a maximum sentence of 5 years.
2) Charge with attempted GBH which carries a maximum sentence of life.
This can occur when the injury caused is less than what the accused intended to cause. It's reported the teacher was discharged quickly from hospital which implies a less serious injury.
Naturally as the case evolves and further evidence is gathered the CPS can change the charge.
Yes that's what was at the link I posted, do you have anything new?Actual Bodily Harm injuries can be quite serious before they venture into Grievous Bodily Harm.
It is possible that the CPS judge the level of injury to the teacher as being ABH (possibly pre-medical evidence from the medical experts).
So the CPS are faced with a decision.
1) Charge with ABH which carries a maximum sentence of 5 years.
2) Charge with attempted GBH which carries a maximum sentence of life.
This can occur when the injury caused is less than what the accused intended to cause. It's reported the teacher was discharged quickly from hospital which implies a less serious injury.
Naturally as the case evolves and further evidence is gathered the CPS can change the charge.
I'm sure you appreciate that legal opinions differ, which is why cases like this one are heard in Court with a Judge and 12, rather than by solicitors/barristers exchanging emails.
Looking at the legal side is one thing, the school side is another. I mentioned earlier, which in your excited state you may also have missed accidentally, that I was aiming to take a balanced view. That view has several contributory factors. One is the accurate information we've received on what happened, supported by information locally as I live about as far away from Tewkesbury School as the pupil managed to get before being arrested, and have supported the school in the medium distant past, retaining a contact there. Another is what legally qualified people decide to place online to inform non-beagles who can read.
I also have direct experience of what happens next. In this instance @Tewkesbury, it was speculated that the teacher intervened in a dispute, apparently not. In another case from quite a few years ago but unforgettable, a headteacher did intervene in an altercation at their school gate. In that case, the attacker didn't carry a diagram of human anatomy in one hand and a knife in the other, and the headteacher was stabbed and killed. I'd worked with, not for, the interim head who was brought in to help the school get back on track, and stayed around working with her and the deputy who was also brought in at the deep end. It turned out well. The LA, a London Borough, had a go beforehand but didn't succeed.
The consequences for so many adults and young people were and are so severe, quite apart from the family of the injured teacher or dead headteacher, that a more serious charge hanging over a pupil who stabs a teacher in school, would send out the right message. We both know they won't get much more than a slapped wrist, so having the enormity of the potential for loss of life in what they did shoved right in their face just for a while, might wake them up and do some good. If not it would at least tell other teachers and parents that this is absolutely and totally unacceptable, beyond mere words.
turbobloke said:
MrBogSmith said:
turbobloke said:
Farce. Not least the 'attempted' wounding with intent, when it was plainly successful. A more serious charge is in order, lame CPS again. What odds a slap on the wrist. Charging at that low level sends no deterrent to other pupils. Good intentions still paving the road to hell.
Given your expertise in everything naturally includes inchoate offences, which charge would you suggest? I posted content from solicitors which you might have accidentally missed, and based my comment on the expertise of a law company. That's also about the time when I suggested an alternative, also based on legal content online.
If there are any remaining objections based on your expertise in everything, given it looks like you weren't agreeing enthusiastically, they can be directed to the solicitors in question as their corporate identity was given in my post.
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