London's air quality poor - but not on the roads
Discussion
Rather than focusing on climate change, Sadiq Khan has made his argument all about reducing illness and deaths due to polluted air in London.
Brown Car Guy has posted a video where he used an air quality measuring device to check the air quality around London. He found that the air quality was perfectly healthy on the streets, but when he took the underground the story changed dramatically.
You could use these results to draw the conclusion that ULEZ has done its job and made London's air safe, but when I look at the results I think it shows that the wrong transport method is being penalised by ULEZ.
Brown Car Guy has posted a video where he used an air quality measuring device to check the air quality around London. He found that the air quality was perfectly healthy on the streets, but when he took the underground the story changed dramatically.
You could use these results to draw the conclusion that ULEZ has done its job and made London's air safe, but when I look at the results I think it shows that the wrong transport method is being penalised by ULEZ.
It should come as a surprise to no-one that they don't really care about illness due to air quality.
The aim is the reduction and removal of private transport. You can Google "UN 2030 sustainability goals" and "Net Zero" for specifics.
The excuses for bashing private transport are cycled on a rota. It's road safety, then it's noise pollution, then saving the planet. It just happens that air quality is "on" at the moment.
The aim is the reduction and removal of private transport. You can Google "UN 2030 sustainability goals" and "Net Zero" for specifics.
The excuses for bashing private transport are cycled on a rota. It's road safety, then it's noise pollution, then saving the planet. It just happens that air quality is "on" at the moment.
911Spanker said:
Yep. If Kahn really cared he would pull his finger out and sort out the underground. But he doesn't really - it's just about money making.
You can't trust any politician and it wouldn't surprise me if people start driving around on fake plates.
How would you propose to make the underground clear of any dust and pollution, bearing in mind much of the infrastructure is well over a century old? What do you think the cost maybe?You can't trust any politician and it wouldn't surprise me if people start driving around on fake plates.
At least cross rail has some ventilation and cooling provision so it is incorrect to say there has been no investment. For clearly obvious reasons retrofitting is extremely complicated.
https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tun...
Pollution needs to be removed from the environment from whatever source.
How long do you spend on the Underground compared to working or living ‘topside’?
Average journey length is something like 25 minutes and over half of it is actually above ground so your exposure is minimal compared to working or living next to a busy road. An issue for LUL staff definitely but not so much the wider public,
Average journey length is something like 25 minutes and over half of it is actually above ground so your exposure is minimal compared to working or living next to a busy road. An issue for LUL staff definitely but not so much the wider public,
braddo said:
Diesel particulates and Nox emissions are carcinogenic and highly toxic.
The particulate matter on tube trains is not (or at least, it's far less). Hence the focus on getting dirty diesels the f
k out of London.
Why not just completely ban dirty diesels then? Paying a few quid doesn't magically make them cleaner. The particulate matter on tube trains is not (or at least, it's far less). Hence the focus on getting dirty diesels the f
k out of London. Sixsixtysix said:
Why not just completely ban dirty diesels then? Paying a few quid doesn't magically make them cleaner.
This is my argument with the Bristol CAZ. Either old diesels are killing people or they are not. If they are, ban them fully. Why let their owners drive as many miles as they like within the CAZ over 24 hours for £9. There are fuel stations within the zone where one could buy even more of this death fuel. Makes no sense. From the quick audit I do over the 20 mins I drive through the city it’s made absolutely no change at all and I see just as many old diesels as I did before the CAZ.Bristol Labour won’t even release they data to show the public how successful it’s been.
Edited by oldaudi on Friday 7th July 20:18
Nomme de Plum said:
How would you propose to make the underground clear of any dust and pollution, bearing in mind much of the infrastructure is well over a century old? What do you think the cost maybe?
At least cross rail has some ventilation and cooling provision so it is incorrect to say there has been no investment. For clearly obvious reasons retrofitting is extremely complicated.
https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tun...
Pollution needs to be removed from the environment from whatever source.
Well they’re hell bent on fitting cameras and a network across the whole of London, so not as if fitting some extraction to the underground is impossible, expensive yes but not impossible.
At least cross rail has some ventilation and cooling provision so it is incorrect to say there has been no investment. For clearly obvious reasons retrofitting is extremely complicated.
https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tun...
Pollution needs to be removed from the environment from whatever source.
Well they’re hell bent on fitting cameras and a network across the whole of London, so not as if fitting some extraction to the underground is impossible, expensive yes but not impossible.
grumbledoak said:
It should come as a surprise to no-one that they don't really care about illness due to air quality.
The aim is the reduction and removal of private transport. You can Google "UN 2030 sustainability goals" and "Net Zero" for specifics.
The excuses for bashing private transport are cycled on a rota. It's road safety, then it's noise pollution, then saving the planet. It just happens that air quality is "on" at the moment.
The aim is the reduction and removal of private transport. You can Google "UN 2030 sustainability goals" and "Net Zero" for specifics.
The excuses for bashing private transport are cycled on a rota. It's road safety, then it's noise pollution, then saving the planet. It just happens that air quality is "on" at the moment.
man the Bacofoil! braddo said:
Diesel particulates and Nox emissions are carcinogenic and highly toxic.
The particulate matter on tube trains is not (or at least, it's far less). Hence the focus on getting dirty diesels the fk out of London.
Have you seen the deposits near railways from all the airborne particulates from the rails, wheels, brakes and atomised oil from the air compressors?The particulate matter on tube trains is not (or at least, it's far less). Hence the focus on getting dirty diesels the f
k out of London. Also, don't forget that the reason we have the NOx levels we done is because government legislation forced OEMs that way. The law makers were fully warned of the of potential repercussions but they didn't care because they had their CO2 blinkers on.
tbh I'd rather sniff the odd stinky diesel bus from the comfort of my car, than some of the smells that come from commuters on public transport.
swisstoni said:
The tube has the right kind of pollution so it’s fine?
Train brakes used to be asbestos lined, as well as asbestos being used for the insulation, mesothelioma is one of the recognised killers of railway workers from back in the day. Would be interesting to see if they do any air sampling down there during renovations or generally? oldaudi said:
Sixsixtysix said:
Why not just completely ban dirty diesels then? Paying a few quid doesn't magically make them cleaner.
This is my argument with the Bristol CAZ. Either old diesels are killing people or they are not. If they are, ban them fully. Why let their owners drive as many miles as they like within the CAZ over 24 hours for £9. There are fuel stations within the zone where one could buy even more of this death fuel. Makes no sense. From the quick audit I do over the 20 mins I drive through the city it’s made absolutely no change at all and I see just as many old diesels as I did before the CAZ.Bristol Labour won’t even release they data to show the public how successful it’s been.
Edited by oldaudi on Friday 7th July 20:18
Isn’t it the case in Manchester if you’re low income you’re exempt from paying it anyway?
Nickbrapp said:
And the issue with CAZ is most people with older diesel cars are poor or low income, so they can’t afford a new car, even in London with the £2000 scrapage scheme.
Isn’t it the case in Manchester if you’re low income you’re exempt from paying it anyway?
It’s under review, regarding Manchester’s CAZ.Isn’t it the case in Manchester if you’re low income you’re exempt from paying it anyway?
Nomme de Plum said:
911Spanker said:
Yep. If Kahn really cared he would pull his finger out and sort out the underground. But he doesn't really - it's just about money making.
You can't trust any politician and it wouldn't surprise me if people start driving around on fake plates.
How would you propose to make the underground clear of any dust and pollution, bearing in mind much of the infrastructure is well over a century old? What do you think the cost maybe?You can't trust any politician and it wouldn't surprise me if people start driving around on fake plates.
At least cross rail has some ventilation and cooling provision so it is incorrect to say there has been no investment. For clearly obvious reasons retrofitting is extremely complicated.
https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tun...
Pollution needs to be removed from the environment from whatever source.
ks about the real polluter as it's "too hard".TX.
Edit - Oh and for the people saying the tube is insignificant
Edited by Terminator X on Friday 7th July 23:17
Terminator X said:
Nomme de Plum said:
911Spanker said:
Yep. If Kahn really cared he would pull his finger out and sort out the underground. But he doesn't really - it's just about money making.
You can't trust any politician and it wouldn't surprise me if people start driving around on fake plates.
How would you propose to make the underground clear of any dust and pollution, bearing in mind much of the infrastructure is well over a century old? What do you think the cost maybe?You can't trust any politician and it wouldn't surprise me if people start driving around on fake plates.
At least cross rail has some ventilation and cooling provision so it is incorrect to say there has been no investment. For clearly obvious reasons retrofitting is extremely complicated.
https://www.cibsejournal.com/technical/londons-tun...
Pollution needs to be removed from the environment from whatever source.
ks about the real polluter as it's "too hard".TX.
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