Are Great British cows carbon neutral???
Discussion
I've always wanted an opportunity to title a thread with a bit of Liz Truss style jingoism! 
It turns out that it's almost certainly true, not only of our cows but also our sheep, and those of other countries like us who raise them outdoors, feeding on the grass in the fields they live in.
Certainly mowing down vast tracts of virgin rain forest to rear cattle or carting the poor f
kers off to US style feed lots to be rammed full of corn is an absolute disaster, but it seems now highly likely that in our system the beneficial effects of the animals' poo enriching the soil and fertilising the pastures - which in turn means the grasses and other plants can absorb more CO2, support more insect life, etc - probably outweighs the detrimental impact of them farting and belching, especially as Methane apparently dissipates naturally in little more than a decade, unlike CO2.
On top of that, if we all became vegan tomorrow as many people want us to, the reality is that this would lead to vast swathes of monoculture crops and the wholesale slaughter of birds, rabbits, deer, rodents, insects and pretty much anything else which life might reduce crop yields!
Surely the most responsible, ethical approach we can all take is to eat British beef, lamb and game?
It turns out that it's almost certainly true, not only of our cows but also our sheep, and those of other countries like us who raise them outdoors, feeding on the grass in the fields they live in.
Certainly mowing down vast tracts of virgin rain forest to rear cattle or carting the poor f
kers off to US style feed lots to be rammed full of corn is an absolute disaster, but it seems now highly likely that in our system the beneficial effects of the animals' poo enriching the soil and fertilising the pastures - which in turn means the grasses and other plants can absorb more CO2, support more insect life, etc - probably outweighs the detrimental impact of them farting and belching, especially as Methane apparently dissipates naturally in little more than a decade, unlike CO2.On top of that, if we all became vegan tomorrow as many people want us to, the reality is that this would lead to vast swathes of monoculture crops and the wholesale slaughter of birds, rabbits, deer, rodents, insects and pretty much anything else which life might reduce crop yields!
Surely the most responsible, ethical approach we can all take is to eat British beef, lamb and game?
Kermit power said:
I've always wanted an opportunity to title a thread with a bit of Liz Truss style jingoism!
It turns out that it's almost certainly true, not only of our cows but also our sheep, and those of other countries like us who raise them outdoors, feeding on the grass in the fields they live in.
Certainly mowing down vast tracts of virgin rain forest to rear cattle or carting the poor fkers off to US style feed lots to be rammed full of corn is an absolute disaster, but it seems now highly likely that in our system the beneficial effects of the animals' poo enriching the soil and fertilising the pastures - which in turn means the grasses and other plants can absorb more CO2, support more insect life, etc - probably outweighs the detrimental impact of them farting and belching, especially as Methane apparently dissipates naturally in little more than a decade, unlike CO2.
On top of that, if we all became vegan tomorrow as many people want us to, the reality is that this would lead to vast swathes of monoculture crops and the wholesale slaughter of birds, rabbits, deer, rodents, insects and pretty much anything else which life might reduce crop yields!
Surely the most responsible, ethical approach we can all take is to eat British beef, lamb and game?
Yup, and water neutral. They drink but it goes out onto the grass fields.It turns out that it's almost certainly true, not only of our cows but also our sheep, and those of other countries like us who raise them outdoors, feeding on the grass in the fields they live in.
Certainly mowing down vast tracts of virgin rain forest to rear cattle or carting the poor f
kers off to US style feed lots to be rammed full of corn is an absolute disaster, but it seems now highly likely that in our system the beneficial effects of the animals' poo enriching the soil and fertilising the pastures - which in turn means the grasses and other plants can absorb more CO2, support more insect life, etc - probably outweighs the detrimental impact of them farting and belching, especially as Methane apparently dissipates naturally in little more than a decade, unlike CO2.On top of that, if we all became vegan tomorrow as many people want us to, the reality is that this would lead to vast swathes of monoculture crops and the wholesale slaughter of birds, rabbits, deer, rodents, insects and pretty much anything else which life might reduce crop yields!
Surely the most responsible, ethical approach we can all take is to eat British beef, lamb and game?
Temporarily borrowed on its path through the water cycle.
And yes, modern crop farming would be infinitely more damaging to the biosphere than moderately farmed grass grazed cattle.
All that matters is that you buy quality farmed meat.
That’s the hard bit. Knowing what you’re buying.
Mr Whippy said:
Yup, and water neutral. They drink but it goes out onto the grass fields.
Temporarily borrowed on its path through the water cycle.
And yes, modern crop farming would be infinitely more damaging to the biosphere than moderately farmed grass grazed cattle.
All that matters is that you buy quality farmed meat.
That’s the hard bit. Knowing what you’re buying.
The expert I was listening to - a butcher who was a guest on the Joe Marler podcast! Temporarily borrowed on its path through the water cycle.
And yes, modern crop farming would be infinitely more damaging to the biosphere than moderately farmed grass grazed cattle.
All that matters is that you buy quality farmed meat.
That’s the hard bit. Knowing what you’re buying.
- reckoned that so long as the meat you're eating is British or Irish, the chances are pretty much certain that you're fine.It's not that British farmers are necessarily paragons of virtue, just that there wouldn't be any real point to trying intensive rearing practices with cattle or sheep in this green and pleasant land, as we're so well suited to rearing them naturally that it wouldn't be cost-effective to try and do anything else.
Even field-raised cows spend several months of the year in sheds.
Increasingly dairy cows are shed raised, with silage brought in from the (managed grassland) fields and fed to the cows. The waste scraped from the shed floors and spread back on the fields.
The whole livestock industry is repeatedly spreading lies about their sustainability, because their own livelihood depends on it.
Increasingly dairy cows are shed raised, with silage brought in from the (managed grassland) fields and fed to the cows. The waste scraped from the shed floors and spread back on the fields.
The whole livestock industry is repeatedly spreading lies about their sustainability, because their own livelihood depends on it.
Kermit power said:
It's not that British farmers are necessarily paragons of virtue, just that there wouldn't be any real point to trying intensive rearing practices with cattle or sheep in this green and pleasant land, as we're so well suited to rearing them naturally that it wouldn't be cost-effective to try and do anything else.
That's absolutely a load of rubbish.https://viva.org.uk/media-centre/muller-cornered-b...
Evanivitch said:
Kermit power said:
It's not that British farmers are necessarily paragons of virtue, just that there wouldn't be any real point to trying intensive rearing practices with cattle or sheep in this green and pleasant land, as we're so well suited to rearing them naturally that it wouldn't be cost-effective to try and do anything else.
That's absolutely a load of rubbish.https://viva.org.uk/media-centre/muller-cornered-b...
For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
Of the 4 farms in our village, none, including us, keep their stock indoors 24/7.
Here's some lambs to calm you down.
Where does that lamb end up?
I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
Mr Whippy said:
Where does that lamb end up?
I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
Chickens do tend to be reared indoors these days - the ones they let out are the ones that often get contaminated with nasty bugs from wild birds and the wider environment. Listeria, Salmonella etc. If you see the site bio security for barn raised chickens it would amaze you.I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
If you are interested in livestock excrement have a listen to BBC Farming Today from the 5th July - from 00.04.50.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001ngh7
Perhaps as much as 50,000 tons a day from `industrial` farming.
That's about 100 double deckers full every hour according to https://www.sustainweb.org/
Special mention of the topical water pollution effects.
Not sure how carbon neutral all that cr*p can ever be when you take into account transport & treatment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001ngh7
Perhaps as much as 50,000 tons a day from `industrial` farming.
That's about 100 double deckers full every hour according to https://www.sustainweb.org/
Special mention of the topical water pollution effects.
Not sure how carbon neutral all that cr*p can ever be when you take into account transport & treatment.
Mr Whippy said:
Where does that lamb end up?
It depends...Some farmers have a direct relationship between themselves and the supermarkets, however we don't, ours go once ready to the local auction mart, where they're bought by butchers, middle tier suppliers, etc.
I do know that in our care they are treated well and are fed almost 100% on grass either directly or via hay in the winter months, with a small amount of extra feed and nutrients. Factory farmed they are not.
andymadmak said:
Mr Whippy said:
Where does that lamb end up?
I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
Chickens do tend to be reared indoors these days - the ones they let out are the ones that often get contaminated with nasty bugs from wild birds and the wider environment. Listeria, Salmonella etc. If you see the site bio security for barn raised chickens it would amaze you.I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
They need all that bio security because it’s a bazillion chickens in one giant barn and they’re all immune compromised from living in a bubble.
One infection and they’re all suffocated in a bath of foam. Lovely stuff.
Cattle are going the same way which is utterly depressing.
How is the life and welfare of animals considered to be of such low value in this equation?
Evanivitch said:
You haven't looked into this much have you? Mammasaid said:
Evanivitch said:
Kermit power said:
It's not that British farmers are necessarily paragons of virtue, just that there wouldn't be any real point to trying intensive rearing practices with cattle or sheep in this green and pleasant land, as we're so well suited to rearing them naturally that it wouldn't be cost-effective to try and do anything else.
That's absolutely a load of rubbish.https://viva.org.uk/media-centre/muller-cornered-b...
For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
Of the 4 farms in our village, none, including us, keep their stock indoors 24/7.
Here's some lambs to calm you down.
ds take full advantage of it. If you forget to close the garden gate for 10 minutes they'll have been in and eaten all of your bedding plants and shat all over the patio. Again.Here they are pictured earlier this year queuing - with the emphasis in 'ewe' - to get the bus down to Lydney for a bit of a day out, although quite often they just choose to walk down the hill in the middle of the road.
Mammasaid said:
What you've quoted, yes!
For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
And yet flies in the face of the post saying it was uneconomic for intensive rearing in the UK. It's not happening, increasingly in the UK and more so now we have to compete with Australia!For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
Mammasaid said:
Of the 4 farms in our village, none, including us, keep their stock indoors 24/7.
Lmao that's your data set. Grow up.Mr Whippy said:
andymadmak said:
Mr Whippy said:
Where does that lamb end up?
I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
Chickens do tend to be reared indoors these days - the ones they let out are the ones that often get contaminated with nasty bugs from wild birds and the wider environment. Listeria, Salmonella etc. If you see the site bio security for barn raised chickens it would amaze you.I see fields of happy cows, sheep, not so much pigs, very rarely chickens… no idea what happens between there and my plate.
We literally need producers to be displayed clearly on packaging, and a way for consumers to audit their food.
Such is the faffing of food production and welfare these days I don’t trust anyone to ‘be doing the right thing, trust us’
They need all that bio security because it’s a bazillion chickens in one giant barn and they’re all immune compromised from living in a bubble.
One infection and they’re all suffocated in a bath of foam. Lovely stuff.
Cattle are going the same way which is utterly depressing.
How is the life and welfare of animals considered to be of such low value in this equation?
This is an interesting read:
http://openshawmemories.uk/food-1950s/#:~:text=Chi...
Food in the 1950s website said:
Chicken was a luxury, sometimes an alternative to turkey at Christmas, but ordinarily too expensive for every week. Factory farming of chicken had not got underway, and old fashioned field farming of them was unproductive, meaning that they were expensive.
Evanivitch said:
Mammasaid said:
What you've quoted, yes!
For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
And yet flies in the face of the post saying it was uneconomic for intensive rearing in the UK. It's not happening, increasingly in the UK and more so now we have to compete with Australia!For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
Mammasaid said:
Of the 4 farms in our village, none, including us, keep their stock indoors 24/7.
Lmao that's your data set. Grow up.Evanivitch said:
Mammasaid said:
What you've quoted, yes!
For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
And yet flies in the face of the post saying it was uneconomic for intensive rearing in the UK. It's not happening, increasingly in the UK and more so now we have to compete with Australia!For a start, they're dairy cows, and secondly that's not the norm for most farms.
Mammasaid said:
Of the 4 farms in our village, none, including us, keep their stock indoors 24/7.
Lmao that's your data set. Grow up.eharding said:
Your article comes from a site which claims to be "Viva! - the UK’s leading vegan campaigning charity". Obviously, I'm not saying that without a shadow of a doubt that they're a completely biased bunch of carrot-sucking garlic-muesli-weaving lentil fondlers, just that they *probably* are.
Question the source, but it's only reporting facts that herds are increasingly being moved into shed systems for the entirety of the seasons. What part of that is being disputed?andymadmak said:
You might need to calm down a bit. Grow up? Thats not appropriate really now is it? You post a link from a vegan propaganda website and accuse people with actual experience of needing to grow up? Beam out of your own eye and all that.
You think a dataset of "the sheep in my village" is a grown up response? Lol.The delusion in this thread is hilarious.
I'm not vegan. I'm not anti-farming, but I understand the reality today of the harm and the trends in livestock farming.
The rubbish in this thread about the impact of vegan diets is hilarious
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