Why don’t the Tories deliver?
Discussion
Maybe the title be, why don’t Tory voters hold them accountable for not delivering?
This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Because it seems a sizeable amount of their voter base can be distracted by "blame the migrants" and something about the "woke blob" stopping them enacting the "will of the people".
Absolute garbage. It's a lack of an alternative. Look at the last election, say that you were a Tory voter who wasn't happy with the Tories delivering but then you looked at what Corbyn was offering and there's every chance that you still saw the Tories as the best of the bad bunch for your needs.
SunsetZed said:
Absolute garbage.
It's a lack of an alternative. Look at the last election, say that you were a Tory voter who wasn't happy with the Tories delivering but then you looked at what Corbyn was offering and there's every chance that you still saw the Tories as the best of the bad bunch for your needs.
Where Corbyn is concerned I can understand it as he was as unsuitable for high office as Johnson was.It's a lack of an alternative. Look at the last election, say that you were a Tory voter who wasn't happy with the Tories delivering but then you looked at what Corbyn was offering and there's every chance that you still saw the Tories as the best of the bad bunch for your needs.
But today right now hearing people still insisting they're doing a good job and there's been a pandemic and a war blah blah blah honestly god knows what those people would call doing a bad job.
They have delivered, the premise of your question is wrong: fastest vaccine role out in Europe, Brexit, Rwanda deal, NI agreement, high interest rates and house prices, highest growth (between certain cherry picked dates) despite the IMF negativity, new King, HS2, Blue passports (OK, made in France, they are not perfect), lots of new peers including the young Charlotte Owen to inspire the HoL, more police, better monitoring of pollution in our waterways, coal power back in use from time to time, lots of PMs in such a short space of time showing that the party is willing to remove people for poor performance, highest majority since 1980 (well, except for three elections but that's just detail)....
Identity politics. Tufton Street has turned lying and grifting into a fine art, by way of convincing those who should be voting Centre Left into believing that Labour is radical/communist/socialist/evil/incompetent/blah blah blah. I believe they called this technique "Project Fear" during the referendum, but AKA gas-lighting.
IMO, anyone who chooses to read the Sun or Daily Mail etc is a Grade A Idiot.
IMO, anyone who chooses to read the Sun or Daily Mail etc is a Grade A Idiot.
Because most habitual Tory voters are "all right, Jack", and prefer to "upset all the right people" than vote for competent politicians, who might make things less intolerable for poor people. They like there being poor people, it gives them someone to blame for any problems, and they also enjoy telling the poor that it's all their own fault that they are poor and they just need to get a better job and work harder. Easy.
I don't include the self-harming "Red Wall" voters who switched to the Tories last time, I suspect most of them have twigged that they've been had and will revert to other parties at the next election.
I don't include the self-harming "Red Wall" voters who switched to the Tories last time, I suspect most of them have twigged that they've been had and will revert to other parties at the next election.
Skeptisk said:
Maybe the title be, why don’t Tory voters hold them accountable for not delivering?
This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
The Tories are currently polling at 25% so your post seems to be based on an inaccurate assessment that they are not being blamed for everything they have messed up. This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
Secondly you have combined a number of issues in terms of where they have messed up, some completely valid and others less so. To take two examples they have been duplicitous on immigration but they did change the benefits system to improve incentives to work and the percentage of the working age population in work of some form was at a record high before the pandemic hit. So no they did not cancel all benefits for the "lazy scroungers" but did change and improve the system.
Finally public finances were in a dire state in 2010 and it takes many years to turn this around. So complaints aimed at New Labour are quite valid where it relates to a number of issues, including public finances, public sector pensions, PFI schemes, and welfare dependency.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:SunsetZed said:
Absolute garbage.
It's a lack of an alternative. Look at the last election, say that you were a Tory voter who wasn't happy with the Tories delivering but then you looked at what Corbyn was offering and there's every chance that you still saw the Tories as the best of the bad bunch for your needs.
Where Corbyn is concerned I can understand it as he was as unsuitable for high office as Johnson was.It's a lack of an alternative. Look at the last election, say that you were a Tory voter who wasn't happy with the Tories delivering but then you looked at what Corbyn was offering and there's every chance that you still saw the Tories as the best of the bad bunch for your needs.
But today right now hearing people still insisting they're doing a good job and there's been a pandemic and a war blah blah blah honestly god knows what those people would call doing a bad job.
Skeptisk said:
Maybe the title be, why don’t Tory voters hold them accountable for not delivering?
This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
They are doing just what big business and the banks want !! And the rest of us it’s here are some empty promises , vote for us we Aren’t labour !!!This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
Bannock said:
Because most habitual Tory voters are "all right, Jack", and prefer to "upset all the right people" than vote for competent politicians, who might make things less intolerable for poor people. They like there being poor people, it gives them someone to blame for any problems, and they also enjoy telling the poor that it's all their own fault that they are poor and they just need to get a better job and work harder. Easy.
I don't include the self-harming "Red Wall" voters who switched to the Tories last time, I suspect most of them have twigged that they've been had and will revert to other parties at the next election.
It works both ways. Many of my friends are Champagne Socialists. They've done well out of Capitalism and want/have left-wing ideological views, but they would never give up their money nor would they want to be taxed.I don't include the self-harming "Red Wall" voters who switched to the Tories last time, I suspect most of them have twigged that they've been had and will revert to other parties at the next election.
JagLover said:
The Tories are currently polling at 25% so your post seems to be based on an inaccurate assessment that they are not being blamed for everything they have messed up.
Secondly you have combined a number of issues in terms of where they have messed up, some completely valid and others less so. To take two examples they have been duplicitous on immigration but they did change the benefits system to improve incentives to work and the percentage of the working age population in work of some form was at a record high before the pandemic hit. So no they did not cancel all benefits for the "lazy scroungers" but did change and improve the system.
Finally public finances were in a dire state in 2010 and it takes many years to turn this around. So complaints aimed at New Labour are quite valid where it relates to a number of issues, including public finances, public sector pensions, PFI schemes, and welfare dependency.
How many more decades are required to sort out the finances? Debt to GDP was around 70% in 2010 and is now around 100%. Secondly you have combined a number of issues in terms of where they have messed up, some completely valid and others less so. To take two examples they have been duplicitous on immigration but they did change the benefits system to improve incentives to work and the percentage of the working age population in work of some form was at a record high before the pandemic hit. So no they did not cancel all benefits for the "lazy scroungers" but did change and improve the system.
Finally public finances were in a dire state in 2010 and it takes many years to turn this around. So complaints aimed at New Labour are quite valid where it relates to a number of issues, including public finances, public sector pensions, PFI schemes, and welfare dependency.
No doubt you will say “covid” “war in Ukraine” yet you wouldn’t let off New Labour for the 2010 deficit because of the global financial crisis.
Skeptisk said:
Maybe the title be, why don’t Tory voters hold them accountable for not delivering?
This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
What is it you want them to deliver and why do you say they have failed?This thread was instigated by reading a post where someone was blaming current problems on New Labour. I real WTF moment. The Tories have had 13 years in power since New Labour were kicked out. At work, if I tried to blame someone who worked here 13 years ago for a current problem I don’t think I would last long!
Anyway, back to the topic. Tory voters seem to have some perennial topics that get them agitated: immigrants, people getting benefits, law and order and the economy. I think it would be hard to argue that the Tories have fixed any of those issues in the last 13 years (in fact they have probably got worse). They keep promising each election that they will improve them and people keep voting them in. Why aren’t they held to account more by their core voter base?
Maybe what they say they will do is just BS to keep voters happy and their real objectives are somewhat different.
Traditional Base
High house prices - tick
Indulging NIMBYs - tick
No CGT on house prices - tick
Triple Lock - tick
Taxation of income over capital - tick
No NI or equivalent on saving - mainly tick
Above inflation NHS rises - tick
Supporting US Foreign Policy - tick
Carried interest taxed as capital and not income - tick
Non doms - tick
London being used as a money laundering haven for Russian money - tick (well until recently)
Controlled council tax - tick (set at a political level, never what is required to provide the service at hand; allowing council's to do dumb s
t to make up shortfalls in income by buying a bridge from a bloke....)Vested Interests (afraid to confront)
Public sector pensions - tick
NHS - tick impossible to move to contributory schemes that are favoured and appear to produce better results in much more "progressive" countries
Regulation of monopolies - tick (evidently a shambles)
Railways - tick (want to interfere but never willing to confront the reality that without reform they are a financial millstone)
Higher Education - tick (kids funneled into a system, indebted and many then progressing to entry level, non degree jobs)
Benefits in general - will not time limit, nor compel people to take a low paying job.
Net zero - tick (the no choice but do it all by 2030 or whatever is unaffordable and will crater standards of living)
Unwilling to invest in long term (too costly apparently)
Skills that are useful - tick
Infrastructure - tick (gets cut every time)
Nuclear - tick (the only thing that isn't intermittent and is proven tech).
They are playing to their base and\or afraid to confront what needs to change. They have no idea how to create growth in the economy (not a unique problem, admittedly). Labour will be much the same.
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