Does diverse casting increase box office sales?
Discussion
Articles in the newspapers this morning about how The Little Mermaid is doing badly in China and how it is the fault of online trolls because of the casting of a black actress in the lead role.
In recent years there has been a trend in Hollywood films and US and UK TV programmes of more diverse casting, in itself no bad thing, but it seems to me that the choices sometimes seem deliberately provocative as if they are trying to stir up controversy to court publicity. But does it work? Is having a black Ariel really going to put more bums on seats?
I would think that casting a black actor for a role most see as white (no doubt that statement will elicit replies about a mermaid being a fish overlooking that it is a Nordic folk tale - clearly the mermaid in the story is white/European just like all the fictional characters in the Mahabharata are Indian, not European or African) would result in making people 1) more likely to see the film 2) less likely or 3) indifferent .
Is it true that 1) is greater than 2) or that neither are significant compared to 3)?
Hollywood famously cares about nothing but the bottom line, so if it is hits turnover why do it?
In recent years there has been a trend in Hollywood films and US and UK TV programmes of more diverse casting, in itself no bad thing, but it seems to me that the choices sometimes seem deliberately provocative as if they are trying to stir up controversy to court publicity. But does it work? Is having a black Ariel really going to put more bums on seats?
I would think that casting a black actor for a role most see as white (no doubt that statement will elicit replies about a mermaid being a fish overlooking that it is a Nordic folk tale - clearly the mermaid in the story is white/European just like all the fictional characters in the Mahabharata are Indian, not European or African) would result in making people 1) more likely to see the film 2) less likely or 3) indifferent .
Is it true that 1) is greater than 2) or that neither are significant compared to 3)?
Hollywood famously cares about nothing but the bottom line, so if it is hits turnover why do it?
Edited by Skeptisk on Saturday 10th June 07:46
Turning it on its head should diverse casting decrease box office sales?
I don't see why it should.
I take irc's point to some degree though so I could (for example) see a BBC adaptation of something with Charles Dickens featuring a black Dickens whilst I couldn't see an adaptation of something with Mandela featuring Benedict Cumberbatch as Mandela.
Thought the whole Apartheid and racism thing feels kind of integral to Mandela.
I don't see why it should.
I take irc's point to some degree though so I could (for example) see a BBC adaptation of something with Charles Dickens featuring a black Dickens whilst I couldn't see an adaptation of something with Mandela featuring Benedict Cumberbatch as Mandela.
Thought the whole Apartheid and racism thing feels kind of integral to Mandela.
I'm not sure that the colour of the mermaid is integral to the story. More the fact that she is half fish....
Whereas Mandela being black is integral to the story. Although it's all dressing up and make believe, where actors pretend to be someone else, so does it really matter?
Whereas Mandela being black is integral to the story. Although it's all dressing up and make believe, where actors pretend to be someone else, so does it really matter?
Edited by TEKNOPUG on Saturday 10th June 09:01
It’s a good film, not quite a Frozen but still better than average Disney Princess fare. You only notice the skin colour of Ariel if you are over 12, the target audience really don’t give a flying fish….
An interesting moment is when Triton gathers his daughters from their respective oceans and each one has faint racial undertones relating to that region of the world. Previously they all began with an “A”, have noticed in the Daughters of Triton song that each of them has a name starting with the letter “A.” However, in the new movie, the daughters have had a bit of a makeover and are called Caspia, Indira, Perla, Karina, Mala, and Tamika.
An interesting moment is when Triton gathers his daughters from their respective oceans and each one has faint racial undertones relating to that region of the world. Previously they all began with an “A”, have noticed in the Daughters of Triton song that each of them has a name starting with the letter “A.” However, in the new movie, the daughters have had a bit of a makeover and are called Caspia, Indira, Perla, Karina, Mala, and Tamika.
The issues here seem to be
- China's market share being significant to the western film industry
- china (or at least portions of China's media) being quite nationalistic.
So, to unpack that
- why would anyone in China give two hoots over the diverse casting of a mermaid? It literally means nothing to them
- china has got sick of all mainstream films having western actors - a factor Disney / marvel et al were slowly waking up to, and one I personally don't feel is unfounded or unfair on their part
- it would be hard to argue the west has not got issues with casting with respect to race (although it is now obligatory for someone post that the Shawshank character Red shouldn't have been black)
So in conclusion, it would be wrong to use this article about Chinese reviews to form an opinion of whether diverse casting directly affects the box office or not.
- Bad casting (ie crap actors) will hurt it more
- A bad film even more so
Generally, a film that is relying on diverse casting to be it's main attraction already tells me it is holed beneath the waterline on the above issues, a d so it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy that it will do badly.
- China's market share being significant to the western film industry
- china (or at least portions of China's media) being quite nationalistic.
So, to unpack that
- why would anyone in China give two hoots over the diverse casting of a mermaid? It literally means nothing to them
- china has got sick of all mainstream films having western actors - a factor Disney / marvel et al were slowly waking up to, and one I personally don't feel is unfounded or unfair on their part
- it would be hard to argue the west has not got issues with casting with respect to race (although it is now obligatory for someone post that the Shawshank character Red shouldn't have been black)
So in conclusion, it would be wrong to use this article about Chinese reviews to form an opinion of whether diverse casting directly affects the box office or not.
- Bad casting (ie crap actors) will hurt it more
- A bad film even more so
Generally, a film that is relying on diverse casting to be it's main attraction already tells me it is holed beneath the waterline on the above issues, a d so it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy that it will do badly.
essayer said:
A film about Mandela would be fundamentally intertwined with race and racism and based on a real person so it would make no sense for a white actor to play his part.
A film about a fictional character in a story aimed at children does not have the same constraints
Agree with you first point. But not necessarily the second. A completely fresh character can be played by anybody.A film about a fictional character in a story aimed at children does not have the same constraints
The problem comes when it is an established personality, especially in kids’ movies. Using the OP’s example, The Little Mermaid has been around a long time and millions of kids already ‘know’ the character and are expecting to see what they are already familiar with.
To use a perennial PH favourite, James Bond could easily be played by a non-white actor.
Orson Welles did pretty well with the concept in 1936:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/28dwHRWz...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/28dwHRWz...
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Turning it on its head should diverse casting decrease box office sales?
I don't see why it should.
I take irc's point to some degree though so I could (for example) see a BBC adaptation of something with Charles Dickens featuring a black Dickens whilst I couldn't see an adaptation of something with Mandela featuring Benedict Cumberbatch as Mandela.
Thought the whole Apartheid and racism thing feels kind of integral to Mandela.
If you don’t think it would hit sales, can you explain why? It that just because it wouldn’t impact your decision to see it? I don't see why it should.
I take irc's point to some degree though so I could (for example) see a BBC adaptation of something with Charles Dickens featuring a black Dickens whilst I couldn't see an adaptation of something with Mandela featuring Benedict Cumberbatch as Mandela.
Thought the whole Apartheid and racism thing feels kind of integral to Mandela.
Dickens wrote fictional stories in a real place and during a real historical period. I wonder whether your attitude would be the same if a film set in Nigeria in the 19 century had some of the Nigerians played by whites and Asians. Personally it would be very odd to me and I think I would be guilty of double standards if I accepted diverse casts if it only when it happens to replace white with non white or men with women.
It is hard to separate from the merits of the movie in question.
The Disney live action movies are usually bloated and souless and no doubt they went in for a bit of "woke" casting to try and get people to pay any attention to the new one at all.
Back before all the political games we used to rate movies on their own merits and many of these movies involved talented black actors.
The Disney live action movies are usually bloated and souless and no doubt they went in for a bit of "woke" casting to try and get people to pay any attention to the new one at all.
Back before all the political games we used to rate movies on their own merits and many of these movies involved talented black actors.
Skeptisk said:
If you don’t think it would hit sales, can you explain why? It that just because it wouldn’t impact your decision to see it?
Dickens wrote fictional stories in a real place and during a real historical period. I wonder whether your attitude would be the same if a film set in Nigeria in the 19 century had some of the Nigerians played by whites and Asians. Personally it would be very odd to me and I think I would be guilty of double standards if I accepted diverse casts if it only when it happens to replace white with non white or men with women.
Personally I don't think it would impact whether I'd watch something just because of the colour or sexuality (remember this is about diversity not just skin colour) but that kind of stuff seems to be an issue for some people.Dickens wrote fictional stories in a real place and during a real historical period. I wonder whether your attitude would be the same if a film set in Nigeria in the 19 century had some of the Nigerians played by whites and Asians. Personally it would be very odd to me and I think I would be guilty of double standards if I accepted diverse casts if it only when it happens to replace white with non white or men with women.
On the Dickens point I don't mean Dickens stories I meant something about Dickens himself.
Not him specifically just a random example of a historical white person.
I think there was something about Anne Boleyn on recently where they cast a black actress?
There probably is a bit of a double standard there about when and where it's considered acceptable to cast someone of a different colour.
Skeptisk said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Turning it on its head should diverse casting decrease box office sales?
I don't see why it should.
I take irc's point to some degree though so I could (for example) see a BBC adaptation of something with Charles Dickens featuring a black Dickens whilst I couldn't see an adaptation of something with Mandela featuring Benedict Cumberbatch as Mandela.
Thought the whole Apartheid and racism thing feels kind of integral to Mandela.
If you don’t think it would hit sales, can you explain why? It that just because it wouldn’t impact your decision to see it? I don't see why it should.
I take irc's point to some degree though so I could (for example) see a BBC adaptation of something with Charles Dickens featuring a black Dickens whilst I couldn't see an adaptation of something with Mandela featuring Benedict Cumberbatch as Mandela.
Thought the whole Apartheid and racism thing feels kind of integral to Mandela.
Dickens wrote fictional stories in a real place and during a real historical period. I wonder whether your attitude would be the same if a film set in Nigeria in the 19 century had some of the Nigerians played by whites and Asians. Personally it would be very odd to me and I think I would be guilty of double standards if I accepted diverse casts if it only when it happens to replace white with non white or men with women.
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