China taking over the World
Discussion
So much of the World is in debt to China and we now believe they have cells in their London embassy and just about to flood us with cheap EV cars.
Obviously taking over most of Africa and various islands of the Caribbean, will the rest of the world be ever be able to stop them?
https://news.sky.com/story/chinese-police-stations...
Obviously taking over most of Africa and various islands of the Caribbean, will the rest of the world be ever be able to stop them?
https://news.sky.com/story/chinese-police-stations...
This is nothing new.
We turned a blind eye to China when they started offering cheap manufacturing, cheap parts and cheap tat that we absolutely lapped up.
We just say oh silly China x when they hack systems and steal secrets, just to keep the wheels turning, we know stuff like hikvision has security concerns but we continue to use it because it’s cheap. We know about child labour but we let it continue because it’s cheap.
We turn a blind eye when the money is flowing in to our economy and infrastructure
We will get everything we deserve in the end I’m sure
We turned a blind eye to China when they started offering cheap manufacturing, cheap parts and cheap tat that we absolutely lapped up.
We just say oh silly China x when they hack systems and steal secrets, just to keep the wheels turning, we know stuff like hikvision has security concerns but we continue to use it because it’s cheap. We know about child labour but we let it continue because it’s cheap.
We turn a blind eye when the money is flowing in to our economy and infrastructure
We will get everything we deserve in the end I’m sure
philv said:
Lannister902 said:
I truly hope China take over from the job America have tried to do, and miserably fail at
Makes one wonder why they bother after that sort of appreciation of the last 100 years of use involvement in world affairs.I'd be interested to know how much back and forth hack attempts (and successes) occur. Academic institutions, aerospace and tech firms here are constantly getting bombarded by Chinese and Russian hacking attempts... Wonder if our lot do the same or if it's pointless?
The general image of China is "they can't innovate or come up with original ideas, they just nick other people's ideas", is that still true or are they the ones now pushing the state of the art? If you have a billion people, statistically you are going to have more people with the mental abilities to come up with new ideas... But does their system/culture stifle or encourage free thought?
The general image of China is "they can't innovate or come up with original ideas, they just nick other people's ideas", is that still true or are they the ones now pushing the state of the art? If you have a billion people, statistically you are going to have more people with the mental abilities to come up with new ideas... But does their system/culture stifle or encourage free thought?
Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 6th June 19:39
Nickbrapp said:
This is nothing new.
We turned a blind eye to China when they started offering cheap manufacturing, cheap parts and cheap tat that we absolutely lapped up.
...
Some people haven't noticed that China doesn't just make cheap stuff any more, they are serious players in many areas of technology.We turned a blind eye to China when they started offering cheap manufacturing, cheap parts and cheap tat that we absolutely lapped up.
...
From a purely selfish perspective, I think it's good that China seems to be taking a slow thorough approach to 'taking over the world'. By the time it comes to a head it probably won't worry me very much. But I could be wrong about that.
I think world-scale politics is on a bad trajectory, I don't think China is by any means the only country or force pulling in a bad direction.
Here's the detail on why China (hopefully) won't invade or militarily blockade Taiwan:
https://audioboom.com/posts/8312094.mp3?modified=1...
Plus China are about to demographically collapse.
...but they *are* powerful and arguably we already have a multipolar world and they are the other great power.
https://audioboom.com/posts/8312094.mp3?modified=1...
Plus China are about to demographically collapse.
...but they *are* powerful and arguably we already have a multipolar world and they are the other great power.
donkmeister said:
I'd be interested to know how much back and forth hack attempts (and successes) occur. Academic institutions, aerospace and tech firms here are constantly getting bombarded by Chinese and Russian hacking attempts... Wonder if our lot do the same or if it's pointless?
The general image of China is "they can't innovate or come up with original ideas, they just nick other people's ideas", is that still true or are they the ones now pushing the state of the art? If you have a billion people, statistically you are going to have more people with the mental abilities to come up with new ideas... But does their system/culture stifle or encourage free thought?
The strength of China, at least in the belief of the clique at the top, is in its control of its population, keeping information filtered. It depends on this strength to retain power. With new and wonderous technologies spewing up like boy bands, it means the controls must become ever tighter, and the pressures greater. Yet their income from abroad is in the little start-ups and for that to continue, they require a certain freedom, to be able to keep up with technology. Control is the death of innovation. Once a faction takes over, such as religions, their intent is to beat innovation with a stick. The advance of the Arab nations was stopped in its tracks. The western catholic church dominated for centuries - the real dark ages. It could easily happen to China; the holy trinity being its leaders. It could well feel the need to pull up the drawbridge to retain control.The general image of China is "they can't innovate or come up with original ideas, they just nick other people's ideas", is that still true or are they the ones now pushing the state of the art? If you have a billion people, statistically you are going to have more people with the mental abilities to come up with new ideas... But does their system/culture stifle or encourage free thought?
Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 6th June 19:39
All empires are ephemeral. They are a bit like paper money; built on promises. The world owed the UK money. We came out of the two world wars owning money to everyone. We then divested ourselves of empire as fast as we could as it cost too much now we'd shown our weaknesses.
I read a book on the benefits of empire for England, then Britain and finally, the UK. The balance sheets didn't impress me much. We had treasure, like the Rosetta Stone, the rocks Elgin rescued, a few statues, and a great conceit, but it didn't do much for us in the wars. The hoi poli got little/no benefit from the slave trade. Life expectancy dropped due to various demands. It was written in the late 1960s, and the conclusion was that 'we', the authors were plebs, were better off without empire. The main driver, they felt, was the arrival of democracy, 95 years ago now. It gave the unwashed education, the enemy of repression.
tescorank said:
So much of the World is in debt to China and we now believe they have cells in their London embassy and just about to flood us with cheap EV cars.
China is in serious financial trouble. China’s total government debt is about $23 trillion. A third of China's major cities are struggling to pay just the interest on debt they owe.https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/05/22/asia-...
China's history is very long, and really interesting. We don't learn much about it in the West as part of our history.
I don't think their objective is world domination; more that they're seeking to be independent of influence from other nations. The last 200 years for them have been somewhat humiliating. Britain and France went to war with China twice, forcing them to buy opium in exchange for China's luxuries like silk and spices. Japan brutalised them in the Second World War, enslaving their people and pillaging all their resources. They've had the uneasy relationship with the Soviet Union, and were for a long time the junior partner in their Communist alignment. Russia still has land that was taken from China in a previous war, and China still claims.
So what I mean is, I don't think we'll be seeing China launching military operations against weaker countries simply to get resources (excepting Taiwan); as the US has done in the past; and as the UK has done when it was empire building. I think that China won't become quite the adversary the USSR was to the US. It's primary contentions with the US are around influence in the South China Sea and Taiwan. The US is already hedging its bets with Taiwan, and building semiconductor factories in the US to reduce reliance on Taiwan. There might come a point where the US won't see Taiwan as important enough to go to war over.
It's also important to note that China internally has a few economic hurdles to overcome too. It's rise to challenge the US hegemony is not certain. They're facing a property market crises, where far to much has been built, and there is no-one to buy. Their population demographics are getting worryingly older, and their young people are not making babies so fast anymore.
IMO, India is the dark horse to watch. It still has a young demographic, a large and growing population, and growing skills.
I don't think their objective is world domination; more that they're seeking to be independent of influence from other nations. The last 200 years for them have been somewhat humiliating. Britain and France went to war with China twice, forcing them to buy opium in exchange for China's luxuries like silk and spices. Japan brutalised them in the Second World War, enslaving their people and pillaging all their resources. They've had the uneasy relationship with the Soviet Union, and were for a long time the junior partner in their Communist alignment. Russia still has land that was taken from China in a previous war, and China still claims.
So what I mean is, I don't think we'll be seeing China launching military operations against weaker countries simply to get resources (excepting Taiwan); as the US has done in the past; and as the UK has done when it was empire building. I think that China won't become quite the adversary the USSR was to the US. It's primary contentions with the US are around influence in the South China Sea and Taiwan. The US is already hedging its bets with Taiwan, and building semiconductor factories in the US to reduce reliance on Taiwan. There might come a point where the US won't see Taiwan as important enough to go to war over.
It's also important to note that China internally has a few economic hurdles to overcome too. It's rise to challenge the US hegemony is not certain. They're facing a property market crises, where far to much has been built, and there is no-one to buy. Their population demographics are getting worryingly older, and their young people are not making babies so fast anymore.
IMO, India is the dark horse to watch. It still has a young demographic, a large and growing population, and growing skills.
China's ascent goes hand in hand with it starting to wobble slightly. They should've gotten rolling a few years before.
I expect a world with a sizeable chunk of Chinese influence would involve fewer brown people being slaughtered so I expect much of the world won't be too sorry to see the US fade a bit.
I expect a world with a sizeable chunk of Chinese influence would involve fewer brown people being slaughtered so I expect much of the world won't be too sorry to see the US fade a bit.
BikeBikeBIke said:
You reckon? They openly want to subjugate Japan and Taiwan. Australia are worried.
Yes. So far in modern times they'll only exterminate you if they believe you're one of their own, whether you yourself feel that way or not. The rest of the world they'll slowly use up and chuck away.
The bigger risk in terms of violence is China propping up or enabling more openly destructive regimes.
When your sugar daddy is content to murder and oppress whoever it wants, you're not going to rein it in either.
Edited by bloomen on Tuesday 6th June 21:33
Rivenink said:
It's also important to note that China internally has a few economic hurdles to overcome too. It's rise to challenge the US hegemony is not certain. They're facing a property market crises, where far to much has been built, and there is no-one to buy. Their population demographics are getting worryingly older, and their young people are not making babies so fast anymore.
IMO, India is the dark horse to watch. It still has a young demographic, a large and growing population, and growing skills.
^ ThisIMO, India is the dark horse to watch. It still has a young demographic, a large and growing population, and growing skills.
China has a bunch of problems for the short term. Not sufficient to make it collapse, but worrying. They are not in the position to buy the world up! Additionally, the CCP knows that they are in a risky situation - they can huff and bluster as much as they like - but they could cause their economy to struggle for decades if they get this wrong.
And yes, India is the one to watch. They have a lot to overcome and resolve. But, they dont have the constraints of the CCP and run the risk of being very impactful on the world stage in the coming years.
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