English UBI trial
Discussion
https://news.sky.com/story/universal-basic-income-...
Seems an odd way to do it:
Aside from anything else, isn't the amount set far too high, when compared to SSP or unemployment benefit or state pension?
Seems an odd way to do it:
said:
Universal basic income is being trialled for the first time in England. A group of people will be given a monthly payment that isn't means tested or tied to work, with researchers exploring what difference it makes to their lives...
The pilot will also recruit a control group who will not get UBI, so researchers can compare the experience of people receiving a basic income with those not getting one
I predict the people who don't get it will be £1600 a month less well off than those who do. The pilot will also recruit a control group who will not get UBI, so researchers can compare the experience of people receiving a basic income with those not getting one
Aside from anything else, isn't the amount set far too high, when compared to SSP or unemployment benefit or state pension?
Matthen said:
I think the sum is far too high. They're giving them more per month, than the income tax two people on 50K PA pay in a month. In what way would it ever work on a large scale.
It's being given to homeless military veterans *- It isn't but I thought I would throw that idea around to see what the responses are
Joey Deacon said:
Surely they have already had this experiment with Furlough during Covid and it was a complete success. Pay people £1600 a month and I suspect a large percentage will decide to stay at home rather than bothering to go to work.
Whilst a hefty chunk p/m, I don't think people will change their ways (especially as it's only short term). I'd just overpay my mortgage, sort my bills, have a nice holiday, buy a new car, bank it etc. There's enough there to do all that and more, it's a bit of a lottery win IMO, like those scratchcards where you win x a month for life. Am I happier? You bet 
Would it be given on top of unemployment benefit or pension - surely it's designed to replace it? But seems to be "extra". Party for those people too
Although I guess it would be a lot harder to drag your arse out of bed for a s
t job if you knew there'd be a similar job waiting for you at the end of the trial?At first thought it sounds like it would send wages higher and therefore increase costs for business which would result in higher inflation, since it would reduce the workforce due to people not bothering to get out of bed.
But then you need to consider that if it's universal and not means tested, it makes part time or low paid work more viable so perhaps people would actually be more inclined to do those jobs not less.
I don't see that these small scale trials will really tell us the answer to that one though.
With 37.5 million working age adults in the UK the annual bill would come to about £720bn. Current welfare budget is about £230bn so it would take some work to make the numbers add up. Who is going to be paying for all this?
But then you need to consider that if it's universal and not means tested, it makes part time or low paid work more viable so perhaps people would actually be more inclined to do those jobs not less.
I don't see that these small scale trials will really tell us the answer to that one though.
With 37.5 million working age adults in the UK the annual bill would come to about £720bn. Current welfare budget is about £230bn so it would take some work to make the numbers add up. Who is going to be paying for all this?
king arthur said:
At first thought it sounds like it would send wages higher and therefore increase costs for business which would result in higher inflation, since it would reduce the workforce due to people not bothering to get out of bed.
But then you need to consider that if it's universal and not means tested, it makes part time or low paid work more viable so perhaps people would actually be more inclined to do those jobs not less.
I don't see that these small scale trials will really tell us the answer to that one though.
With 37.5 million working age adults in the UK the annual bill would come to about £720bn. Current welfare budget is about £230bn so it would take some work to make the numbers add up. Who is going to be paying for all this?
They just print more money, which causes inflation and we all pay for it by paying much more for things of which the tax take is then syphoned off and goes to those who came up with the idea. It is genius to be fair. But then you need to consider that if it's universal and not means tested, it makes part time or low paid work more viable so perhaps people would actually be more inclined to do those jobs not less.
I don't see that these small scale trials will really tell us the answer to that one though.
With 37.5 million working age adults in the UK the annual bill would come to about £720bn. Current welfare budget is about £230bn so it would take some work to make the numbers add up. Who is going to be paying for all this?
Or switch to CBDC..... and they control the value of everything. And affordability of the scheme is irrelevant.
Comparing to a control group is pointless.
Giving one group £1600 and another group nothing, has poured extra money into the equation without considering where it comes from.
A true test would also include funding the "free" £1600 from the people in the trial. That's what needs to happen for UBI to work.
Giving one group £1600 and another group nothing, has poured extra money into the equation without considering where it comes from.
A true test would also include funding the "free" £1600 from the people in the trial. That's what needs to happen for UBI to work.
johnboy1975 said:
https://news.sky.com/story/universal-basic-income-...
Seems an odd way to do it:
Aside from anything else, isn't the amount set far too high, when compared to SSP or unemployment benefit or state pension?
The point is to understand what normal, working type people will do when they have a decent monthly income that is guaranteed. Seems an odd way to do it:
said:
Universal basic income is being trialled for the first time in England. A group of people will be given a monthly payment that isn't means tested or tied to work, with researchers exploring what difference it makes to their lives...
The pilot will also recruit a control group who will not get UBI, so researchers can compare the experience of people receiving a basic income with those not getting one
I predict the people who don't get it will be £1600 a month less well off than those who do. The pilot will also recruit a control group who will not get UBI, so researchers can compare the experience of people receiving a basic income with those not getting one
Aside from anything else, isn't the amount set far too high, when compared to SSP or unemployment benefit or state pension?
Will they continue working and simply save the extra money? WIll they spend the extra money? Will they take a break from their jobs and do something else? perhaps volunteer for charity, or cut their hours and work more part time? Will they spend more time with their kids.
UBI is a potential solution to a problem many forsee coming: what will humans do when Artifical Inteligences upset the balance that exists in our economy: people produce stuff to make money to consume stuff. Who will consume stuff when AI takes over more and more of the production, and consumes very little of the stuff produced.
So many things wrong with this that it seems like one of those distraction stories.
I imagine a lot of these ideas come from watching star trek where they all seem to beaver away at something without ever
grumbling about the wages.
At a guess of how it could be financed . AI does everything we tax AI and its owners 99.9% to pay for it all.
Humans just sit in the park surrounded by piles of empty cider cans.
I imagine a lot of these ideas come from watching star trek where they all seem to beaver away at something without ever
grumbling about the wages.
At a guess of how it could be financed . AI does everything we tax AI and its owners 99.9% to pay for it all.
Humans just sit in the park surrounded by piles of empty cider cans.
sugerbear said:
Matthen said:
I think the sum is far too high. They're giving them more per month, than the income tax two people on 50K PA pay in a month. In what way would it ever work on a large scale.
It's being given to homeless military veterans *- It isn't but I thought I would throw that idea around to see what the responses are
Rivenink said:
The point is to understand what normal, working type people will do when they have a decent monthly income that is guaranteed.
Will they continue working and simply save the extra money? WIll they spend the extra money? Will they take a break from their jobs and do something else? perhaps volunteer for charity, or cut their hours and work more part time? Will they spend more time with their kids.
UBI is a potential solution to a problem many forsee coming: what will humans do when Artifical Inteligences upset the balance that exists in our economy: people produce stuff to make money to consume stuff. Who will consume stuff when AI takes over more and more of the production, and consumes very little of the stuff produced.
I do wonder about the people who write all about this future where robots will do all the work. It has been forecast for about 100 years that "in the future we will have so much leisure time we won't know what to do with it". But you still have people slogging away on minimum wage cleaning sewers, picking vegetables etc.Will they continue working and simply save the extra money? WIll they spend the extra money? Will they take a break from their jobs and do something else? perhaps volunteer for charity, or cut their hours and work more part time? Will they spend more time with their kids.
UBI is a potential solution to a problem many forsee coming: what will humans do when Artifical Inteligences upset the balance that exists in our economy: people produce stuff to make money to consume stuff. Who will consume stuff when AI takes over more and more of the production, and consumes very little of the stuff produced.
Rivenink said:
The point is to understand what normal, working type people will do when they have a decent monthly income that is guaranteed.
Will they continue working and simply save the extra money? WIll they spend the extra money? Will they take a break from their jobs and do something else? perhaps volunteer for charity, or cut their hours and work more part time? Will they spend more time with their kids.
Not sure you need a UBI trial for that. Just look at anyone of working age in receipt of a pension.Will they continue working and simply save the extra money? WIll they spend the extra money? Will they take a break from their jobs and do something else? perhaps volunteer for charity, or cut their hours and work more part time? Will they spend more time with their kids.
As it happens my pension is around £26k
Since I began drawing it I have gone on a few 2 or 3 month bike trips. Apart from that I went back to work part time after a 8 months break.
Why? Social contact and to fund a more expensive lifestyle. Two car family with non working wife. Currently working 3 days a week average but irregular pattern so I get regular weeks off without using leave.
If course my wife retired from a low paid job with no pension and has no income until she is 67.
If we both got a £26k UBI then we would be getting more income than just now and paying less tax.
In that case I'd probably keep working but save more.
Anyway I guess a study of working age retirees would answer a lot of questions. From looking at former colleagues it covers the full spectrum from never working again to going straight into another full time job.
Fundoreen said:
So many things wrong with this that it seems like one of those distraction stories.
I imagine a lot of these ideas come from watching star trek where they all seem to beaver away at something without ever
grumbling about the wages.
At a guess of how it could be financed . AI does everything we tax AI and its owners 99.9% to pay for it all.
Humans just sit in the park surrounded by piles of empty cider cans.
Indeed.I imagine a lot of these ideas come from watching star trek where they all seem to beaver away at something without ever
grumbling about the wages.
At a guess of how it could be financed . AI does everything we tax AI and its owners 99.9% to pay for it all.
Humans just sit in the park surrounded by piles of empty cider cans.
And I guess it will be easy to tax the AI companies like how we tax Google and Amazon
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