Diabetes rates in Pakistan

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Wtf. 400k deaths a year due to lack of medicine?

A 70% increase since 2019 in rates?

This is insane.

One source

https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-driving-Pakistans-al...

Is the diet really going that bad? I.e. sugars etc - any firsthand experiences of in country?

[PurplePangolin]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Wtf. 400k deaths a year due to lack of medicine?

A 70% increase since 2019 in rates?

This is insane.

One source

https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-driving-Pakistans-al...

Is the diet really going that bad? I.e. sugars etc - any firsthand experiences of in country?

The problem will be more complex than just a lack of medicine. The diet will be that bad and not helped by cultural and religious traditions.

Diabetes is preventable but you would need a government and health department that challenges the food manufacturers - not just throwing “medicine” (which doesn’t cure the disease) at the problem.

Look at the cost of attempting to treat diabetes in the UK or USA - that is also insane.

[Grumps.]

PurplePangolin said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Wtf. 400k deaths a year due to lack of medicine?

A 70% increase since 2019 in rates?

This is insane.

One source

https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-driving-Pakistans-al...

Is the diet really going that bad? I.e. sugars etc - any firsthand experiences of in country?

The problem will be more complex than just a lack of medicine. The diet will be that bad and not helped by cultural and religious traditions.

Diabetes is preventable but you would need a government and health department that challenges the food manufacturers - not just throwing “medicine” (which doesn’t cure the disease) at the problem.

Look at the cost of attempting to treat diabetes in the UK or USA - that is also insane.

Whilst type 2 is preventable, type 1 isn't.

[Earthdweller]

PurplePangolin said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Wtf. 400k deaths a year due to lack of medicine?

A 70% increase since 2019 in rates?

This is insane.

One source

https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-driving-Pakistans-al...

Is the diet really going that bad? I.e. sugars etc - any firsthand experiences of in country?

The problem will be more complex than just a lack of medicine. The diet will be that bad and not helped by cultural and religious traditions.

Diabetes is preventable but you would need a government and health department that challenges the food manufacturers - not just throwing “medicine” (which doesn’t cure the disease) at the problem.

Look at the cost of attempting to treat diabetes in the UK or USA - that is also insane.

iirc it’s also genetic with diabetes being a problem across South Asia and parts of the Middle East

It’s also very prevalent in areas of the U.K. with large south Asian communities such as Blackburn and Bradford

What is surprising is how low down the the list of countries diabetes rates the U.K. comes

[Catastrophic Poo]

Earthdweller said:

iirc it’s also genetic with diabetes being a problem across South Asia and parts of the Middle East

It’s also very prevalent in areas of the U.K. with large south Asian communities such as Blackburn and Bradford

What is surprising is how low down the the list of countries diabetes rates the U.K. comes

Very much, people tend to think T2DM…. Sugar! Grrrr. When in fact it is a broad mix of factors.

[ralphrj]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Wtf. 400k deaths a year due to lack of medicine?

A 70% increase since 2019 in rates?

This is insane.

One source

https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-driving-Pakistans-al...

Is the diet really going that bad? I.e. sugars etc - any firsthand experiences of in country?

No first hand experience of Pakistan but I read recently that they were one of a number of countries that were struggling to afford the interest payments on their Belt and Road Initiative loans from China. It could be that spiralling interest payments is causing health expenditure (already very low in Pakistan) to be cut back.

[julian64]

Grumps. said:

Whilst type 2 is preventable, type 1 isn't.

Depends what you mean by preventable

Type two isn't completely full of people who deserve rebuke.
For a start type one is sporadic and type two has a strong genetic association.
That genetic association is a reason why your statement, although not entirely incorrect, is simplistically misleading.

[J4CKO]

Yeah, people from that part of the world do seem more susceptible to Type 2 Diabetes, and I think, based on my own experiences it is exacerbated by diet quite considerably.

Been to a few weddings and other events for Pakistani friends over the years. Where us white brits will go to a wedding and get plastered, as is traditional, and with its own dangers, they go crazy on the sweet stuff.

As Islam prohibits alcohol they go for a sugar rush instead, for example our friend had her 50th in a function room above an India restaurant and had a sweet bar, she proudly told us she had spent hundreds of pounds on boxes of sweets, some normal stuff and a good selection on Indian sweets, after the food folk then gorged on sweets, washing them down in a lot of cases with full sugar soft drinks, Rubicon Mango seems massively popular. I have a bit of a sweet tooth but nothing on those folk ! Everyone took big goody bags filled with the remaining sweets, cake etc.

At a wedding I went to similar, with the addition of this absolutely amazing pudding made with Carrots (Halwa ?) which was a cross between a stodgy British pudding and Indian confectionery, sublime and I had three bowls before its amazing powers of "sticking to your ribs" kicked in, that was lovely but probably sweeter than the British equivalent, even some of the curries get sugar thrown in.

But, they dont tend to have alcohol related illness, suppose everyone has their vices and pays the price for them.

[oddman]

Given that T2DM is largely asymptomatic and can only be diagnosed with a blood test, it makes you wonder how they've identified the numbers.

True numbers might be even higher.

I don't doubt that genetics plays a part. Being a relatively undernourished child also predisposes. However the wedding behaviour described above happens, to a somewhat lesser extent, every night of Ramadan. Makes you wonder whether fasting and gorging on High GI carbs isn't really a very smart way of managing your pancreas.

[PurplePangolin]

Catastrophic Poo said:

Earthdweller said:

iirc it’s also genetic with diabetes being a problem across South Asia and parts of the Middle East

It’s also very prevalent in areas of the U.K. with large south Asian communities such as Blackburn and Bradford

What is surprising is how low down the the list of countries diabetes rates the U.K. comes

Very much, people tend to think T2DM…. Sugar! Grrrr. When in fact it is a broad mix of factors.

Which are?

[PurplePangolin]

Grumps. said:

PurplePangolin said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Wtf. 400k deaths a year due to lack of medicine?

A 70% increase since 2019 in rates?

This is insane.

One source

https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-driving-Pakistans-al...

Is the diet really going that bad? I.e. sugars etc - any firsthand experiences of in country?

The problem will be more complex than just a lack of medicine. The diet will be that bad and not helped by cultural and religious traditions.

Diabetes is preventable but you would need a government and health department that challenges the food manufacturers - not just throwing “medicine” (which doesn’t cure the disease) at the problem.

Look at the cost of attempting to treat diabetes in the UK or USA - that is also insane.

Whilst type 2 is preventable, type 1 isn't.

Type 2 affects far greater numbers.

[dingg]

Pakistani diabetes rate is 31% of the population, biggest percentage in the world, its not surprising that so many die from it....

[Jamescrs]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Wtf. 400k deaths a year due to lack of medicine?

A 70% increase since 2019 in rates?

This is insane.

One source

https://www.dw.com/en/what-is-driving-Pakistans-al...

Is the diet really going that bad? I.e. sugars etc - any firsthand experiences of in country?

Not first hand experience, I am not Pakistani personally but a good friend of mine is and has real issues with Diabetes and I know his family seem to have a history of similar issues. I know him well enough to see when his Diabetes is getting out of control and I also know his diet is shocking, not just in terms of his food but also the amount of sugar he puts in coffee.

I try to have a word with him about it but ultimately he is a grown man in his 50's and he knows himself he should do better.

[mike9009]

Genetics of the central Asian region means the pancreas of said demographics are not used to the carb rich western diet developed over several centuries.

But the never ending push for more carbs and expanding waists in western cultures also puts up T2D rates dramatically. Look at T2D rates in Asian communities in Britain and it is not a surprise it is so high. T2D is preventable and also controllable with sensible diet decisions , medicine not needed, but education about diet is essential. To blame it on lack of medication is somewhat missing the root cause of the problem......

[MarkJS]

I’ve spent some time in Pakistan and the savoury food eaten at home is pretty healthy - very vegetable & lentil based and actually rather dull. However, there has been a massive increase in the availability of fast food in recent years and the younger people can’t get enough of it. There’s also the sweet side of things as previously mentioned - you see lots of sweet centres/tea, coffee, cake/ice cream places in UK towns & cities with large Pakistani/British populations. It’s a similar situation in parts of the Middle East.

Pakistan is an utter hole and I can’t imagine much is done to attempt to educate people on what’s good and what’s not.

[irc]

Are diabetes rates affected by inbreeding? Pakistan has one of the highest rates of cousin marriages in the world.



https://bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/articles...

[VR99]

There is a significant challenge across all South Asian communities when it comes to Diabetes....not all but a large proportion. The culprit seems to be refined sugars and starchy carbs. A couple of generations back when there was more physical exercise and less Western style junk food available, the sugar/carb intake could probably be offset by physical jobs, lot of walking, farming and whatever else.....couple of generations later that's all changed. More junk food, more sedentary lifestyle and ease of access to food ...not surprised where it all ends up.

There are various theories including some who blame 'starvation genes' that came about due to the colonial periods e.g: periods of mass starvation/famine in India under British Rule...no idea how accurate this is but either way mainstream medicine seems to be catching up now so it's being factored in more when treating South Asian diabetics etc.

Edited by VR99 on Wednesday 31st May 19:43

[Vanden Saab]

VR99 said:

There is a significant challenge across all South Asian communities when it comes to Diabetes....not all but a large proportion. The culprit seems to be refined sugars and starchy carbs. A couple of generations back when there was more physical exercise and less Western style junk food available, the sugar/carb intake could probably be offset by physical jobs, lot of walking, farming and whatever else.....couple of generations later that's all changed. More junk food, more sedentary lifestyle and ease of access to food ...not surprised where it all ends up.

There are various theories including some who blame 'starvation genes' that came about due to the colonial periods e.g: periods of mass starvation/famine in India under British Rule...no idea how accurate this is but either way mainstream medicine seems to be catching up now so it's being factored in more when treating South Asian diabetics etc.

Edited by VR99 on Wednesday 31st May 19:43

Well that did not take long.

The thrifty genotype theory you suggest has been thoroughly discredited. The so called starvation gene is a thing but tends to producing smaller people when there is malnutrition whilst in the womb and is at least 40,000 years old and is not just unrelated but is probably a major factor in humans still living on the planet.

[VR99]

Vanden Saab said:

Well that did not take long.

The thrifty genotype theory you suggest has been thoroughly discredited. The so called starvation gene is a thing but tends to producing smaller people when there is malnutrition whilst in the womb and is at least 40,000 years old and is not just unrelated but is probably a major factor in humans still living on the planet.

Hence why I stated it's one of various 'theories' rather than fact along with the other posters suggestions on this thread which you have conveniently not quoted...

[irc]

Then there is the Polynesian fat gene.

https://gizmodo.com/how-a-powerful-obesity-gene-he...

https://www.brown.edu/news/2016-07-25/samoagene