“National Conservatism”

[otolith]

Still not entirely sure that this isn’t an elaborate trolling exercise, but it would appear that they are happy to form a grouping with a name which has unfortunate historical connotations (and which could be abbreviated to the “Nat-Cs”) and to start ranting about national identity, the threat of Marxism and the need for pronatalist policies. Perhaps Rees-Mogg can be forgiven on the grounds that it’s all a bit too modern for him, but presumably at least some of them are familiar with 20th Century European history?

It’s not a good look.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/l...

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr...

[Carl_Manchester]

Should have called it 'Build Back Better Conservatism' and got the thumbs up from the Guardian.

[2xChevrons]

Yeah, I've been thinking of doing a post about the new National Conservatism thing now the conference is on. I find it interesting (in an entirely 'know thine enemy' sort of way) because it seems to be staking a claim to the future conservative/right-wing motion where Brexit is 'done' and now needs to be built on, and where increasing numbers of movers, shakers and policy wonks can see that neoliberalism is, if not quite hitting the buffers, certainly screeching into the siding with depleted pressure in the brakes.

It seems to be an attempt to build a British movement in the mould of Orban, Netanyahu, Meloni and - especially -the GOP. There's a lot of cross-pollination with American Conservative think tanks in the bowels of this movement (movement of bowels?) and some of their policies and statements are very much copy/pasted from America. To the extent that a lot of their pre-conference publications had American spellings still in them. There's also a fair amount of 'Christian heritage', 'Christian values' and general God-bothering in there, which also screams "American evangelical funding pipeline" because that sort of thing usually goes down like a cup of cold sick with the British electorate.

[Cobracc]

The Naci party...?

[cgt2]

What works in rural America hoodwinking and fleecing gullible dips*its with a confused notion of Christianity whilst endorsing terrible moral choices will not translate over here in any conceivable way in my view.

[bloomen]

2xChevrons said:

There's also a fair amount of 'Christian heritage', 'Christian values' and general God-bothering in there, which also screams "American evangelical funding pipeline" because that sort of thing usually goes down like a cup of cold sick with the British electorate.

If they think the British masses will respond to that in a trillion years then it goes to show how these assholes are further away from reality than ever before.

Go to America. Stay there.

[Vanden Saab]

otolith said:

Still not entirely sure that this isn’t an elaborate trolling exercise, but it would appear that they are happy to form a grouping with a name which has unfortunate historical connotations (and which could be abbreviated to the “Nat-Cs”) and to start ranting about national identity, the threat of Marxism and the need for pronatalist policies. Perhaps Rees-Mogg can be forgiven on the grounds that it’s all a bit too modern for him, but presumably at least some of them are familiar with 20th Century European history?

It’s not a good look.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/l...

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr...

Winner of the NP&E tenuous connections award 2023 and it is still only May. Are the links to unfortunate historical connotations also as tenuous as 'Nat-Cs'? It would not have been complete without links to the rag that has just had to remove a racist cartoon from it's website. Well played.

[eharding]

Vanden Saab said:

otolith said:

Still not entirely sure that this isn’t an elaborate trolling exercise, but it would appear that they are happy to form a grouping with a name which has unfortunate historical connotations (and which could be abbreviated to the “Nat-Cs”) and to start ranting about national identity, the threat of Marxism and the need for pronatalist policies. Perhaps Rees-Mogg can be forgiven on the grounds that it’s all a bit too modern for him, but presumably at least some of them are familiar with 20th Century European history?

It’s not a good look.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/l...

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr...

Winner of the NP&E tenuous connections award 2023 and it is still only May. Are the links to unfortunate historical connotations also as tenuous as 'Nat-Cs'? It would not have been complete without links to the rag that has just had to remove a racist cartoon from it's website. Well played.

Like it or not, this mob are going to be branded Nat-Cs from now on. Would you describe yourself as a Nat-C?

[otolith]

Vanden Saab said:

Winner of the NP&E tenuous connections award 2023 and it is still only May. Are the links to unfortunate historical connotations also as tenuous as 'Nat-Cs'? It would not have been complete without links to the rag that has just had to remove a racist cartoon from it's website. Well played.

I appreciate that you are precisely the sort of individual this wing of the party thinks will vote for them, but I honestly think you’d still defend them if Mogg adopted a Hitler tache and pranced around the stage goose stepping like John Cleese.

Hopefully they’ll get wiped out at the general election and return as a moderate, economically centre right and socially liberal party after purging the headbangers. They can all go join the NF and take their supporters with them.

[deckster]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/national-c...

Racists, xenophobes, religious bigots and homophobes.

Certain posters here will love them.

[Vanden Saab]

eharding said:

Vanden Saab said:

otolith said:

Still not entirely sure that this isn’t an elaborate trolling exercise, but it would appear that they are happy to form a grouping with a name which has unfortunate historical connotations (and which could be abbreviated to the “Nat-Cs”) and to start ranting about national identity, the threat of Marxism and the need for pronatalist policies. Perhaps Rees-Mogg can be forgiven on the grounds that it’s all a bit too modern for him, but presumably at least some of them are familiar with 20th Century European history?

It’s not a good look.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/l...

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr...

Winner of the NP&E tenuous connections award 2023 and it is still only May. Are the links to unfortunate historical connotations also as tenuous as 'Nat-Cs'? It would not have been complete without links to the rag that has just had to remove a racist cartoon from it's website. Well played.

Like it or not, this mob are going to be branded Nat-Cs from now on. Would you describe yourself as a Nat-C?

God no, I am a confirmed agnostic atheist with a strong dislike of most religions. I do find it amusing that the OP has bypassed Godwin's law by going there in his original post though. No doubt this group are planning ahead for the inevitable change to PR. some seem to be supporting when small parties like this will hold the balance of power.... see Scotland for details...

[otolith]

Vanden Saab said:

God no, I am a confirmed agnostic atheist with a strong dislike of most religions. I do find it amusing that the OP has bypassed Godwin's law by going there in his original post though. No doubt this group are planning ahead for the inevitable change to PR. some seem to be supporting when small parties like this will hold the balance of power.... see Scotland for details...

I didn’t go there, they did, with their bizarre choice of name and policies straight out of the 1940’s fascist playbook.

[230TE]

2xChevrons said:

Yeah, I've been thinking of doing a post about the new National Conservatism thing now the conference is on. I find it interesting (in an entirely 'know thine enemy' sort of way) because it seems to be staking a claim to the future conservative/right-wing motion where Brexit is 'done' and now needs to be built on, and where increasing numbers of movers, shakers and policy wonks can see that neoliberalism is, if not quite hitting the buffers, certainly screeching into the siding with depleted pressure in the brakes.

It seems to be an attempt to build a British movement in the mould of Orban, Netanyahu, Meloni and - especially -the GOP. There's a lot of cross-pollination with American Conservative think tanks in the bowels of this movement (movement of bowels?) and some of their policies and statements are very much copy/pasted from America. To the extent that a lot of their pre-conference publications had American spellings still in them. There's also a fair amount of 'Christian heritage', 'Christian values' and general God-bothering in there, which also screams "American evangelical funding pipeline" because that sort of thing usually goes down like a cup of cold sick with the British electorate.

Conservatives appear bereft of ideas, and flapping around like a dead duck that hasn't yet realised it is dead. Keir Starmer's duck died a while back, hence the lack of ideas, even bonkers ones, coming from that quarter. If there are any intellectuals left in Britain who have an interest in politics, could they please make themselves known. Your country needs you.

[Mortarboard]

right wingers not happy with the UK not being right wing enough said:

After Cates spoke, Yoram Hazony, the Israeli-US thinktanker behind the NatCon organisation, told the event that the UK was plagued with woke “neo-Marxist” agitators who want to detach Britons from their entire past, and called for a return to mandatory military service.

Would anyone be surprised if a uniform was coming next?

M.

[2xChevrons]

bloomen said:

2xChevrons said:

There's also a fair amount of 'Christian heritage', 'Christian values' and general God-bothering in there, which also screams "American evangelical funding pipeline" because that sort of thing usually goes down like a cup of cold sick with the British electorate.

If they think the British masses will respond to that in a trillion years then it goes to show how these assholes are further away from reality than ever before.

Go to America. Stay there.

As an example I've just seen on twitter, today Miriam Cates has told the NatCon conference that the UK's biggest threats to the UK are low birthrates, the declining value of motherhood, too high university attendance rates, no-fault divorces and cultural Marxism.

Low birthrates = ethnonationalist dogwhistle straight from the Meloni playbook.

Declining value of motherhood = religious-tinged, vaguely misogynistic social Conservative cornerstone, but not really a concept seen in British political discourse. Very popular in the American Red States, though.

High University attendance rates = standard populist conservative anti-intellectualism, amplified via America.

No-fault divorces = absolutely copy/paste from an American think tank because it's a bugbear of patriarchal Christian weirdos in the GOP but we've only had no-fault divorces in the UK for a little over a year - they were signed in under the Johnson government so they can't have had any effect on birth rates or society.

Cultural Marxism = classic hard-right euphemism, beloved of Viktor Orban. A meaningless term that has its origins as a Nazi antisemitic conspiracy theory.

[eharding]

Mortarboard said:

right wingers not happy with the UK not being right wing enough said:

After Cates spoke, Yoram Hazony, the Israeli-US thinktanker behind the NatCon organisation, told the event that the UK was plagued with woke “neo-Marxist” agitators who want to detach Britons from their entire past, and called for a return to mandatory military service.

Would anyone be surprised if a uniform was coming next?

M.

I don't think they'd describe it as a 'uniform' as such, but they'll be strongly promoting their 'merch' range of apparel. Given the likely emphasis on sombre tones (albeit picked out with silver highlights) it'll probably attract the unfortunate moniker of Nat-C Death Merch.

[Mortarboard]

eharding said:

I don't think they'd describe it as a 'uniform' as such, but they'll be strongly promoting their 'merch' range of apparel. Given the likely emphasis on sombre tones (albeit picked out with silver highlights) it'll probably attract the unfortunate moniker of Nat-C Death Merch.

I see what you did there

It'll turn out they have an interest in trains, too.

M.

[Vanden Saab]

otolith said:

Vanden Saab said:

God no, I am a confirmed agnostic atheist with a strong dislike of most religions. I do find it amusing that the OP has bypassed Godwin's law by going there in his original post though. No doubt this group are planning ahead for the inevitable change to PR. some seem to be supporting when small parties like this will hold the balance of power.... see Scotland for details...

I didn’t go there, they did, with their bizarre choice of name and policies straight out of the 1940’s fascist playbook.

Fascists calling their opponents Marxists and vice versa. Always good to watch.

[otolith]

Vanden Saab said:

Fascists calling their opponents Marxists and vice versa. Always good to watch.

Honestly. Just look at the historical precedents and the naming of the thing. It’s beyond satire. It’s like left wing students cosplaying Tories for laughs, but they’re serious.

[InitialDave]

Vanden Saab said:

Fascists calling their opponents Marxists and vice versa. Always good to watch.

The slight difference is that the fascists, well, are.

This National Conservatism looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.


Probably walks more like a goose, though.