Working From Home- Firms forcing people back to the office
Discussion
Looking in this week's Sunday Times there seems a clear theme of trying to force people back to the office.
In terms of the data I think one survey showed the total going into offices in London is still 22% lower than it was pre-pandemic. This however has changed a lot since last year which was 43% down.
Speaking personally one of the reasons I left my last job is the push for people to be in three days a week. I have a new job, on higher pay, which I enjoy more and so far, in three months, I haven't set foot in the London office. I have more meetings than ever though, all by Teams.
I think we glimpsed the future during the pandemic, but there are too many vested interests in the old system, and a lack of imagination to see how new ways of working can be made to be superior to the old.
Interested to hear the experiences of others and how much pressure they have been under to return.
In terms of the data I think one survey showed the total going into offices in London is still 22% lower than it was pre-pandemic. This however has changed a lot since last year which was 43% down.
Speaking personally one of the reasons I left my last job is the push for people to be in three days a week. I have a new job, on higher pay, which I enjoy more and so far, in three months, I haven't set foot in the London office. I have more meetings than ever though, all by Teams.
I think we glimpsed the future during the pandemic, but there are too many vested interests in the old system, and a lack of imagination to see how new ways of working can be made to be superior to the old.
Interested to hear the experiences of others and how much pressure they have been under to return.
The principle of working from home is fine.
However people are the variables. Many are simply not working the hours they should. Others need support from colleagues that is easier in person, rather than sending messages and waiting for a reply. And some simply like to interact with others in person.
The hybrid, part time in the office seems to be the default and works for many.
I have a small company and it simply doesn't work with people working from home. I simply get asked to many questions through the day to be done via teams, telephone or email.
However people are the variables. Many are simply not working the hours they should. Others need support from colleagues that is easier in person, rather than sending messages and waiting for a reply. And some simply like to interact with others in person.
The hybrid, part time in the office seems to be the default and works for many.
I have a small company and it simply doesn't work with people working from home. I simply get asked to many questions through the day to be done via teams, telephone or email.
My firm have been pretty pragmatic about it - they’ve seen that we can generate decent (record) levels of turnover working flexibly and have generally let people find their own level. I enjoy going in 3 days a week for a bit of adult conversation/s
t chat - but the key change as far as I can see is that there is no longer a culture of getting in by 8, leaving after 18.30 and not wanting to be the first person out of the door. I often do 9.30 - 16.00 now, catching up on emails on the train, which means I don’t miss the kids breakfast or dinner times - time I’ll never get back all for ‘needing’ to be at my desk at the same time as some senior partner who has made their money, and prides themselves on the nanny and stay at home wife raising the kids.
We’ve a skills shortage in my area of work which does help with the issue of ‘balance’ im sure.
It does present an issue when somebody is virtually invisible though - hard to help them progress when senior staff don’t know them. It’s also challenging for new starters who need training, but we’re getting there now too.
t chat - but the key change as far as I can see is that there is no longer a culture of getting in by 8, leaving after 18.30 and not wanting to be the first person out of the door. I often do 9.30 - 16.00 now, catching up on emails on the train, which means I don’t miss the kids breakfast or dinner times - time I’ll never get back all for ‘needing’ to be at my desk at the same time as some senior partner who has made their money, and prides themselves on the nanny and stay at home wife raising the kids. We’ve a skills shortage in my area of work which does help with the issue of ‘balance’ im sure.
It does present an issue when somebody is virtually invisible though - hard to help them progress when senior staff don’t know them. It’s also challenging for new starters who need training, but we’re getting there now too.
Edited by Maxf on Monday 8th May 07:56
Company embraced working from home plus flexible working, retention has never been better, able to recruit nationally, been in the office three times in three years, st still gets done, hybrid working is offered and many take up going into the office a few days a week. Some people even occasionally work from other people’s homes, the best of both worlds for them. Flexibility is the key, rabid adherence to something that is done “just because” is the lock.
Oh and people can easily skive in an office too, it’s not like productivity was ever through the roof for many people.
t still gets done, hybrid working is offered and many take up going into the office a few days a week. Some people even occasionally work from other people’s homes, the best of both worlds for them. Flexibility is the key, rabid adherence to something that is done “just because” is the lock.Oh and people can easily skive in an office too, it’s not like productivity was ever through the roof for many people.
grumbledoak said:
My company seems resigned to it. We are hiring, but we are not considering juniors or new grads at all. Not enough staff or candidates will do the five days a week in the office to get them started.
That’s a shame. We’re taking on plenty of grads, you just need to put them with the right managers and perhaps split them between 2 so there is generally cover. Most of the grads like to be able to do a day at home though. I do feel sorry for the ones we took on during lockdown though - some I didn’t meet on their entire rotation. JagLover said:
Looking in this week's Sunday Times there seems a clear theme of trying to force people back to the office.
.
the times and the telegraph are under pressure to run stories that are anti-WFH as the ruling classes and other big investors will be under water on tens of billions of commercial property as leases roll over in the coming years..
the same people pulling the strings of the press are the same groups that sent over a million jobs abroad and said remote working was OK as along as it's not a Brit doing it.
Now British workers want to exert similar rights and are told this is the wrong world view about work eventhough many of them mostly talk to people not in the UK or the same place as them via a laptop.
It won't work for all companies or roles but it seems to work for my role.
Usually do two or three days in the office mostly because others do and the social element is there plus there are times where whilst you can do things via Teams it's just easier if everyone is in the same room with a whiteboard.
My employer takes the view it's here to stay.
Usually do two or three days in the office mostly because others do and the social element is there plus there are times where whilst you can do things via Teams it's just easier if everyone is in the same room with a whiteboard.
My employer takes the view it's here to stay.
I've got two kids who are employed. Both have continued to work from home for the majority of their week. My eldest's employer has closed one office. Saves a fortune I would imagine. He works slightly longer hours, saving an hour's commute each way means he splits the time saved. He loves it, and there's that little unvoiced threat that if he is ordered back to the office fulltime, he'll revert to old habits. He's lucky in the sense that he lives in a big house and has a spare room for his office. My younger daughter has two pre-school kids and will come to our house two days a week for quiet.
Of the others, and their partners, they are self-employed, but one works on various sites.
I can't see the point of reverting just because it used to be that way. Seems nonsensical to me. Also, the savings for both sides are considerable. If an employee will slack working from home, he'll slack at work.
Of the others, and their partners, they are self-employed, but one works on various sites.
I can't see the point of reverting just because it used to be that way. Seems nonsensical to me. Also, the savings for both sides are considerable. If an employee will slack working from home, he'll slack at work.
My company wants us in 60%, I tend to do more though. I get more done in the office, have better networking/interactions etc.
Vs a few years ago I feel the younger staff don’t have the same confidence to approach people, even calling. Rather than popping over to a desk, it’s messaging, is it ok to call you? Just add lots of steps.
A perfect role for me would be 4 longer days like they’ve been touting - or 4 in , 1 home.
Vs a few years ago I feel the younger staff don’t have the same confidence to approach people, even calling. Rather than popping over to a desk, it’s messaging, is it ok to call you? Just add lots of steps.
A perfect role for me would be 4 longer days like they’ve been touting - or 4 in , 1 home.
ScotHill said:
Company embraced working from home plus flexible working, retention has never been better, able to recruit nationally, been in the office three times in three years, st still gets done, hybrid working is offered and many take up going into the office a few days a week. Some people even occasionally work from other people’s homes, the best of both worlds for them. Flexibility is the key, rabid adherence to something that is done “just because” is the lock.
Oh and people can easily skive in an office too, it’s not like productivity was ever through the roof for many people.
In terms of your last point, that is very true. As a character in the Dilbert cartoon said to Wally "If you were fired how would your coffee mug make it around the office". t still gets done, hybrid working is offered and many take up going into the office a few days a week. Some people even occasionally work from other people’s homes, the best of both worlds for them. Flexibility is the key, rabid adherence to something that is done “just because” is the lock.Oh and people can easily skive in an office too, it’s not like productivity was ever through the roof for many people.
If you are going to make WFH you need to embrace it as your company has done, reap the benefits of being able to recruit nationally, build teams where the members are separated geographically. Requiring hybrid working is pointless, you might as well make it a mandatory five days a week. You are not embracing the future just giving workers a more relaxed Friday. Offering it is another matter and there are lots of advantages to having the availability of a physical office when needed.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 8th May 08:28
Edited by JagLover on Monday 8th May 08:29
I am a consultant and working currently with a major UK bank they have just announced a change in policy 2 days a week in the office. All of my colleagues are in a different part of the UK so seems pointless.
However the client pays the bills so gets to dictate. Ultimately their are pros and cons for me 20 years in same industry and same area it makes little or no difference having F2F meetings etc even pre pandemic this was the case. I worked at one client who wanted 5 days a week onside. Perm staff at client even grads wfh 2 days a week consultant's could not. In that time the sender person e forcing this spoke to me once to ask a reg question.
Grads who might have benefited from training were rarely interested as we were external SMEs. So we did the job an left. I could have done the job from an office in Wales, my home a Starbucks etc. But the client wanted to physically see people. Had they walked to my desk what was on screen likely made zero sense to the project director in any case.
It won't be right for everyone but I have yet to hear a convincing reason that doesn't boil down to "I want to see you so I can pretend I am managing a team"
However the client pays the bills so gets to dictate. Ultimately their are pros and cons for me 20 years in same industry and same area it makes little or no difference having F2F meetings etc even pre pandemic this was the case. I worked at one client who wanted 5 days a week onside. Perm staff at client even grads wfh 2 days a week consultant's could not. In that time the sender person e forcing this spoke to me once to ask a reg question.
Grads who might have benefited from training were rarely interested as we were external SMEs. So we did the job an left. I could have done the job from an office in Wales, my home a Starbucks etc. But the client wanted to physically see people. Had they walked to my desk what was on screen likely made zero sense to the project director in any case.
It won't be right for everyone but I have yet to hear a convincing reason that doesn't boil down to "I want to see you so I can pretend I am managing a team"
Carl_Manchester said:
JagLover said:
Looking in this week's Sunday Times there seems a clear theme of trying to force people back to the office.
.
the times and the telegraph are under pressure to run stories that are anti-WFH as the ruling classes and other big investors will be under water on tens of billions of commercial property as leases roll over in the coming years..
the same people pulling the strings of the press are the same groups that sent over a million jobs abroad and said remote working was OK as along as it's not a Brit doing it.
Now British workers want to exert similar rights and are told this is the wrong world view about work eventhough many of them mostly talk to people not in the UK or the same place as them via a laptop.
"WFH bad"-why?, because there are too many wealthy interests tied to the old economic model.
In the current place people are obviously far less productive on the wfh days. They treat the Monday and Fridays as extended weekends.
It's also weird to walk into a huge building in the heart of the city and it's mostly a ghost town on certain days.
1-2 days wfh seems to good balance.
Thr problem is, some people work really well from home. But for the vast majority of general workers, their drop in productivity is obvious.
In the last place, wfh was unofficially banned. Anyone who did wfh was leveraged heavily. In one of the managers words, you had no excuse to be away from the desk when you're at home. You are not visiting clients or in meetings that aren't via teams. So you should be reachable 99.9% of the time. Not sure if that made wfh desirable or not. Luckily I was in my managers good books and was the only one allowed to regularly wfh in my team.
It's also weird to walk into a huge building in the heart of the city and it's mostly a ghost town on certain days.
1-2 days wfh seems to good balance.
Thr problem is, some people work really well from home. But for the vast majority of general workers, their drop in productivity is obvious.
In the last place, wfh was unofficially banned. Anyone who did wfh was leveraged heavily. In one of the managers words, you had no excuse to be away from the desk when you're at home. You are not visiting clients or in meetings that aren't via teams. So you should be reachable 99.9% of the time. Not sure if that made wfh desirable or not. Luckily I was in my managers good books and was the only one allowed to regularly wfh in my team.
Edited by Ice_blue_tvr on Monday 8th May 08:36
I've worked mainly from home for about 15 years except when I was in consulting roles and the client demanded on site work, but that was usually only a few weeks at a time.
Current job I started last September. Been into the office (140 miles away) three times so far. Pointless going in as many others are remote too, so I tend to only go in for necessary meetings or team events.
I think remote working works well for a lot of office based roles. You'll get some slackers, but it isn't like that didn't happen in offices either. I find I get far less work done in the office as I spend more time socialising and chatting than working. At home I'm focussed and get far more done.
From a recruitment perspective it's great. We have a lot of roles, mine included, that are very difficult to recruit quality candidates for. Being able to source the right skills from practically any location is very useful. Recruiting from within 50 miles of a small city often isn't going to get the best talent available. If I wasn't able to have a remote working contract then my current employer would not have been able to recruit me. The flipside of that situation is that the company is also now in competition with more alternative employers for that talent, but it's all good from an employee perspective.
Current job I started last September. Been into the office (140 miles away) three times so far. Pointless going in as many others are remote too, so I tend to only go in for necessary meetings or team events.
I think remote working works well for a lot of office based roles. You'll get some slackers, but it isn't like that didn't happen in offices either. I find I get far less work done in the office as I spend more time socialising and chatting than working. At home I'm focussed and get far more done.
From a recruitment perspective it's great. We have a lot of roles, mine included, that are very difficult to recruit quality candidates for. Being able to source the right skills from practically any location is very useful. Recruiting from within 50 miles of a small city often isn't going to get the best talent available. If I wasn't able to have a remote working contract then my current employer would not have been able to recruit me. The flipside of that situation is that the company is also now in competition with more alternative employers for that talent, but it's all good from an employee perspective.
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