United and City to axe logos
Discussion
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1760370/Manchest...
The was so coloured guy, a proffesor from Birmingham uni on Polotics live telling that Manchester was built ion the slave trade and the trade of cotton that was produced by slaves
Surely Manchester grow on the industrial revolution, the steam engine, railways, and the invention of the spinning jenny.
There were slaves, working in mines and mills working for the barons. But they were white
The was so coloured guy, a proffesor from Birmingham uni on Polotics live telling that Manchester was built ion the slave trade and the trade of cotton that was produced by slaves
Surely Manchester grow on the industrial revolution, the steam engine, railways, and the invention of the spinning jenny.
There were slaves, working in mines and mills working for the barons. But they were white
I’d guess his argument is the cotton pickers were probably slaves and the owners of the Manchester cotton mills back in the mid 1800s should have known this and sourced only fair trade, organic, vegan cotton….
The ships have always represented its role as a major port around that time, the ship canal was opened in late 1890s, so around the time the clubs would have been formed hence its natural to celebrate it on a badge (though I assume the badge has been refined and redesigned over the years)
Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, with citation, “in 1908, although Manchester had about 75 percent of the mule spindles in the United Kingdom, only 14 per cent of the raw material used in cotton spinning passed through the Port of Manchester”
The ships have always represented its role as a major port around that time, the ship canal was opened in late 1890s, so around the time the clubs would have been formed hence its natural to celebrate it on a badge (though I assume the badge has been refined and redesigned over the years)
Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, with citation, “in 1908, although Manchester had about 75 percent of the mule spindles in the United Kingdom, only 14 per cent of the raw material used in cotton spinning passed through the Port of Manchester”
pablo said:
I’d guess his argument is the cotton pickers were probably slaves and the owners of the Manchester cotton mills back in the mid 1800s should have known this and sourced only fair trade, organic, vegan cotton….
That still doesn't make the ships symbolise slavery though. They were just normal 19th century trading ships not slave ships. Firstly the ship emblem is on Manchester's logo, ie the City of Manchester, so it's more of a question to them than the football clubs.
Secondly, there never seems to be any account taken that this country was the one that spent money, spilt blood and did more than anyone to end the slave trade.
Thirdly, again no account is ever taken of who were the original slave traders in the countries where the slaves originated. People from various regions of England were enslaved too.
Finally, there is still slavery in UK and Europe today, and nothing to do with race or skin type.
Secondly, there never seems to be any account taken that this country was the one that spent money, spilt blood and did more than anyone to end the slave trade.
Thirdly, again no account is ever taken of who were the original slave traders in the countries where the slaves originated. People from various regions of England were enslaved too.
Finally, there is still slavery in UK and Europe today, and nothing to do with race or skin type.
FiF said:
Secondly, there never seems to be any account taken that this country was the one that spent money, spilt blood and did more than anyone to end the slave trade.
It's like having a bunch of serial killers get arrested and one of them saying I called the police on us all so I stopped it. Doesn't negate in any way what they've already done and you don't get a badge for stopping it.F1GTRUeno said:
It's like having a bunch of serial killers get arrested and one of them saying I called the police on us all so I stopped it. Doesn't negate in any way what they've already done and you don't get a badge for stopping it.
Also, we weren't the first to abolish the trade (or to make slavery illegal), and the vast majority of the money we spent on eradicating the trans-Atlantic trade was in the form of compensation to the ex-slave-owners for having 'their' property taken off them - the Liverpool & Manchester Railway, which secured the second phase of Manchester's industrial growth, was largely funded by this sudden liberation of capital. And another good chunk of the effort, money and blood we (and other European countries) spent in eliminating the trade was in the form of colonising parts of west Africa to put a stop to the local trade 'at source'. Edit: To actually address the story in the OP - and allowing for the disparity between the thread title and the actual story (they're not 'axing' the logos - someone mentioned the possible connection in an interview), I generally go with the position of everyone in any position of authority or influence quoted in that article - there's no harm in the motif's symbolism being discussed and Manchester's influence by and on the slave trade being appreciated, but to do away with the motif would be pointless tokenism at best. Manchester actually has one of the 'best' legacies with regard to chattel slavery of any British industrial town, with a prominent abolitionist streak in the citizenry and working class, culminating in the embargo of Confederate cotton in the 1860s at the cost to their own employment and livelihoods.
The city crest featuring the sailing ship wasn't even granted until a decade after slavery was abolished in the Empire (and nearly 30 years after the trade was proscribed), and in heraldry merchant ships in full sail generally represent free trade and traffic in general, not slavery, even if in Manchester's case there is overlap between the two in history. It's like when the original name for what is now the Cabot Circus shopping centre in Bristol was changed after protest - it was originally going to be 'Merchant's Quarter' but that apparently had connotations with the slave trade so it was changed in a public poll. I always thought that was overly sensitive - Bristol has always been a mercantile port city and that certainly involved a prominent position in the 'triangular trade' in the era of slavery, but there was more to the city then, before and after.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Friday 21st April 11:44
F1GTRUeno said:
It's like having a bunch of serial killers get arrested and one of them saying I called the police on us all so I stopped it. Doesn't negate in any way what they've already done and you don't get a badge for stopping it.
Except there were no police to call and one of those serial killers put their chidren in debt for centuries to stop the other serial killers ensuring the world was a better place for all.......So yes a badge is required because no one else was going to stop it.
Title, yes misleading, sorry, cut and pasted, was meant to change it but forgot!!!
sebdangerfield said:
Oliver Hardy said:
coloured guy
Hi granddad, can you hear me? Walk towards the light granddad. Oliver Hardy said:
Polotics
No, no. The other light granddad. Edited by sebdangerfield on Friday 21st April 11:16
Oliver Hardy said:
Used the word because he was stereo typing and finding links to slavery were they really don't exist. After all Manchester clubs were founded years after slavery was abolished and were founded by working men playing football with no links to anything not rich barons.
Did you copy and paste the bit about white slaves in Manchester mills and mines or come up with it yourself? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff