Black actress plays Cleopatra. Outrage ensues

[glazbagun]

Complaints over Netflix depiction of Cleopatra as too black:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65322...

Complaints over Gal Gadot depiction of Cleopatra as too White:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5540...

It's like people have just learned that movies aren't historically accurate.

It would be jarring, but I think on balance I'd take a Black Wallace if it meant we could erase Braveheart.

[eldar]

glazbagun said:

Complaints over Netflix depiction of Cleopatra as too black:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65322...

Complaints over Gal Gadot depiction of Cleopatra as too White:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5540...

It's like people have just learned that movies aren't historically accurate.

It would be jarring, but I think on balance I'd take a Black Wallace if it meant we could erase Braveheart.

What about Gromit?

[Evanivitch]

glazbagun said:

Complaints over Netflix depiction of Cleopatra as too black:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65322...

Complaints over Gal Gadot depiction of Cleopatra as too White:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5540...

It's like people have just learned that movies aren't historically accurate.

It would be jarring, but I think on balance I'd take a Black Wallace if it meant we could erase Braveheart.

Cleopatra was from Macedonia, and inbred.

The issue with for me isn't that the actress is black, I'm not bothered by any desire for race-matching actors with roles unless it's pertinent to the story, but that Jade Pinkett Smith as producer is trying to rewrite the history of Cleopatra as a black queen in the publicity material. Which is just odd.

[irc]

So would it be ok for a white actor to play the lead role in a biopic about Nelson Mandela?

Surely any film tries to look like the events it is dictating.

[XCP]

irc said:

So would it be ok for a white actor to play the lead role in a biopic about Nelson Mandela?

Surely any film tries to look like the events it is dictating.

Not these days.

There is a production of Richard 111 current where the entire cast are female, and Richard is black.

[chemistry]

irc said:

So would it be ok for a white actor to play the lead role in a biopic about Nelson Mandela?

Surely any film tries to look like the events it is dictating.

Personally I think it would be OK in principle, although the resulting film would likely be rather 'odd' to watch.

In my view any actor should be able to play any part - that's the whole point, actors are people pretending to be someone else. That is not to say that the resulting portrayals will necessarily be judged to be 'good' ones, but in principle why shouldn't anyone play any role (and audiences can decide whether they like it or not and vote with their eyeballs/wallets)?

Where I have a problem is where this rule isn't applied consistently, for example when black people complain about white actors playing characters who were historically black but have no problem with black actors playing white characters. That's hypocritical and unacceptable.

[Evanivitch]

irc said:

So would it be ok for a white actor to play the lead role in a biopic about Nelson Mandela?

Surely any film tries to look like the events it is dictating.

Nelson Mandela's story being particularly important about race, then yes it would be important.

Black actor playing Shakespeare's Henry V, fine by me. White actor playing Agent J in a Men in Black reboot, yeah why not?

[chemistry]

Evanivitch said:

Nelson Mandela's story being particularly important about race, then yes it would be important.

The danger here is that how could one judge who was the right sort of racially correct person to be 'allowed' to portray him? Could a mixed race black-caucasian do it? Or could someone who is much darker skinned than Nelson Mandela was? What if make-up was required to lighten/darken their skin to better match his; is that OK? How much is allowed?

Overall, whilst I agree that any biopic about Mandela probably ought to strive to have an actor that resembled him, I'd see that as a guideline rather than a rule and would have no issue if in any given production he were played by an Asian, Caucasian, woman, child, person in a wheelchair, or whatever. That said, would I personally want to watch any of those avant-garde productions; probably not.

[TonyToniTone]

Evanivitch said:

Cleopatra was from Macedonia, and inbred.

The issue with for me isn't that the actress is black, I'm not bothered by any desire for race-matching actors with roles unless it's pertinent to the story, but that Jade Pinkett Smith as producer is trying to rewrite the history of Cleopatra as a black queen in the publicity material. Which is just odd.

The films portray the last pharaoh Cleopatra VII born in Alexandra not Cleopatra of Macedon, who would presumably have lighter skin if that's point you are trying to make.

[272BHP]

I think we will only be a racially harmonious society when the monarch of Wakanda the Black Panther is a white person and no-one complains.

Given that the current monarch of Asgard the home of the Norse gods is a woman of colour it should not be out of the question surely?

These things are complex and my head hurts

[Evanivitch]

TonyToniTone said:

The films portray the last pharaoh Cleopatra VII born in Alexandra not Cleopatra of Macedon, who would presumably have lighter skin if that's point you are trying to make.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_dynasty

[TonyToniTone]

Evanivitch said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_dynasty

Keep digging 300 years separates Cleopatra VII and Cleopatra of Macedon, and the film isn't about Cleopatra of Macedon.

[eldar]

Pissed off the Egyptians....


Egyptians complain over Netflix depiction of Cleopatra as black https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65322...

[Terminator X]

If roles had to be filled by exact copies of the character being played then i suspect it would take a while to place all the actors Vs what happens now.

TX.

[Terminator X]

chemistry said:

irc said:

So would it be ok for a white actor to play the lead role in a biopic about Nelson Mandela?

Surely any film tries to look like the events it is dictating.

Personally I think it would be OK in principle, although the resulting film would likely be rather 'odd' to watch.

In my view any actor should be able to play any part - that's the whole point, actors are people pretending to be someone else. That is not to say that the resulting portrayals will necessarily be judged to be 'good' ones, but in principle why shouldn't anyone play any role (and audiences can decide whether they like it or not and vote with their eyeballs/wallets)?

Where I have a problem is where this rule isn't applied consistently, for example when black people complain about white actors playing characters who were historically black but have no problem with black actors playing white characters. That's hypocritical and unacceptable.

Ah but minorities can't be racist

TX.

[Evanivitch]

TonyToniTone said:

Evanivitch said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_dynasty

Keep digging 300 years separates Cleopatra VII and Cleopatra of Macedon, and the film isn't about Cleopatra of Macedon.

Do you know what a dynasty is? And do you know what inbred is?

Where a person is born doesn't dictate the colour of their skin. Their heritage does. Cleopatra VII was of the Macedonian Greek dynasty, Ptolemaic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_race_con...

[TonyToniTone]

Evanivitch said:

Do you know what a dynasty is? And do you know what inbred is?

Where a person is born doesn't dictate the colour of their skin. Their heritage does. Cleopatra VII was of the Macedonian Greek dynasty, Ptolemaic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_race_con...

I did know that she was of European heritage but you obviously didn't otherwise you wouldn't have posted the following in a discussion about Cleopatra VII.

Evanivitch said:

Cleopatra was from Macedonia

Why not just fess up and admit you got the wrong one?

[Evanivitch]

TonyToniTone said:

Evanivitch said:

Do you know what a dynasty is? And do you know what inbred is?

Where a person is born doesn't dictate the colour of their skin. Their heritage does. Cleopatra VII was of the Macedonian Greek dynasty, Ptolemaic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_race_con...

I did know that she was of European heritage but you obviously didn't otherwise you wouldn't have posted the following in a discussion about Cleopatra VII.

Evanivitch said:

Cleopatra was from Macedonia

Why not just fess up and admit you got the wrong one?

I'm not sure you did, hun

[TonyToniTone]

Ok let's rewrite history and pretend she wasn't born in Egypt.

[donkmeister]

There have always been (and probably always will be) people who will get their knickers in a twist about what is (in their opinion) too many people on TV/in film of a colour that isn't the same as them.

However, I do wonder if using actors of the "wrong" ethnicity for a character has been pushed too hard and has now officially jumped the shark. When it's argued "but the ethnicity isn't important to the character" that doesn't resolve that it makes it historically inaccurate, or that the character has always been depicted as that colour/gender. Shaft... Apart from the theme song refering to him as a black private dick, there is nothing about his character that means he HAS to be black. But a white Shaft would be retarded.

But on the flip side how far do you push the authenticity? Black Africans are not a single ethnic group, so should a non-Bantu be allowed to play Nelson Mandela? Most white Brits are a mish-mash of Celtic and Germanic tribes, can they play Latin Romans?

One concession: Nick Fury is now black. No ifs or buts. They drew him wrong in the comics.