Guardian apologises for slave trade links
Discussion
Vanden Saab said:
What is your view?Interesting and thought provoking article from David Olusoga
https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/20...
I suppose he was focusing on the Guardian's connections which means the Atlantic slave trade but societies worldwide have traded in human capital for thousands of years. Until relatively recently it was considered normal.
Do the descendents of enslaved people, many of whom will be doing better now than they would have done if they stayed back in Africa, really want an apology from people who had absolutely nothing whatever to do with the slave trade. I doubt it.
Do they want an apology from the Africans who captured and sold them to European traders? Dunno..you dont hear much about it.
Do the descendents of enslaved people, many of whom will be doing better now than they would have done if they stayed back in Africa, really want an apology from people who had absolutely nothing whatever to do with the slave trade. I doubt it.
Do they want an apology from the Africans who captured and sold them to European traders? Dunno..you dont hear much about it.
Gweeds said:
Vanden Saab said:
What is your view?FourWheelDrift said:
I'd prefer more people knew about what Britain did to stop the international slave trade. An expensive undertaking, the loans were only paid back in full in 2015.
So do I. Like all the money that was given to the slave owners to compensate them. And secondly the many many years it took to outlaw it in the uk because the great and the good didn’t want to stop it. FourWheelDrift said:
I'd prefer more people knew about what Britain did to stop the international slave trade. An expensive undertaking, the loans were only paid back in full in 2015.
Good to know too. And not mutually exclusive with other forms of recognition of past errors. It's not a binary proposition thankfully.Vanden Saab said:
Gweeds said:
Vanden Saab said:
What is your view?On the one hand, I rejoice in the fact that The Guardian, that bastion of holier than thou, virtue-signalling hyperbolists, apologists and stone-throwing-glass-house-inhabiters, has been caught with its pants down around its ankles and is now in an existential crisis, wriggling on a stick, consuming itself. Let the lapidation and self-flagellation continue unabated until they learn to tell the truth rather than over egging the over-egged pudding.
On the other hand, I have the utmost respect for Prof. David Olusoga - he’s an extraordinarily gifted researcher, broadcaster and teacher, and he is a beacon of rational thinking in an age of irrationality, bigotry and hypocrisy. As such he sums up the salient issues perfectly in that video.
And on my third hand, I also feel that imposing contemporary moral values ex post facto on generations 2 centuries hence is problematic; where does this stop? What is to be gained?
On my fourth hand, imposing contemporary moral values ex post facto on generations 2 centuries hence serves to highlight historical injustice and suffering; and it also becomes an important nexus around which (hopefully rational) debate can take place. And that is what I feel is the most important take away from all of this.
So as Natalie Imbruglia’s classic societal critique suggests, I’m “torn”.
The Guardian was not only funded by slavery (no surprise given the era and the capital required) but it editorially supported it with some fervour.
In 1862, they wrote:
"it was an evil day both for America and the world when [Abraham Lincoln] was chosen President of the United States"
This wasn't a one off; they consistently attacked him over the years, including at re-election.
And in December of that year, the mill workers of Manchester went on strike in support of abolition and Lincoln's blockade, refusing to process cotton that had last been touched by slave hands. This despite the fact that lack of work left them starving and destitute. In response, The Guardian ran an editorial telling them that they should stop protesting and go back to work.
It's almost like their 'liberal' opinions - which is a politically accurate label at least if you're British - have in fact, when interests are threatened, always been primarily on the side of capital and the establishment.
I wonder what parallels we might be able to look at in its contemporary editorial choices?
In 1862, they wrote:
"it was an evil day both for America and the world when [Abraham Lincoln] was chosen President of the United States"
This wasn't a one off; they consistently attacked him over the years, including at re-election.
And in December of that year, the mill workers of Manchester went on strike in support of abolition and Lincoln's blockade, refusing to process cotton that had last been touched by slave hands. This despite the fact that lack of work left them starving and destitute. In response, The Guardian ran an editorial telling them that they should stop protesting and go back to work.
It's almost like their 'liberal' opinions - which is a politically accurate label at least if you're British - have in fact, when interests are threatened, always been primarily on the side of capital and the establishment.
I wonder what parallels we might be able to look at in its contemporary editorial choices?
Carl_Manchester said:
Steerpike:
"the guardian finally cancels itself".
"the guardian finally cancels itself".
Hopefully not the online version, which has free access, and I read Grauniad articles regularly as a result.
Monbiot and that woman with the Tuscany villa are often entertainingly absurd.
I read a couple of other broadsheets which lack free online access, but wouldn't pay for the Guardian, so I'd miss the belly laughs.
nickfrog said:
Denis, the last thing we need is dialectic. This is supposed to be about the grrrr....
It was an excellent post though, might even cause one of two to think a bit harder. Went a bit too far with The Guardian bashing I thought, when it comes to over egging nothing beats an egg quite like The Mail, Express and Telegraph. Judging by the balance of the post, I very much doubt the poster is ‘torn’ and thought the Imbruglia reference was just a bit of shameless publicity for the song, societal classique my arse.
Blue62 said:
nickfrog said:
Denis, the last thing we need is dialectic. This is supposed to be about the grrrr....
It was an excellent post though, might even cause one of two to think a bit harder. Went a bit too far with The Guardian bashing I thought, when it comes to over egging nothing beats an egg quite like The Mail, Express and Telegraph. Judging by the balance of the post, I very much doubt the poster is ‘torn’ and thought the Imbruglia reference was just a bit of shameless publicity for the song, societal classique my arse.
lockhart flawse said:
Do the descendents of enslaved people, many of whom will be doing better now than they would have done if they stayed back in Africa, really want an apology from people who had absolutely nothing whatever to do with the slave trade. I doubt it.
I've seen this canard a couple of times now.I can't understand how people think it would really fly as a valid opinion? It is ultimately whataboutary and serves only as a smoke screen for the hard of thinking.
lockhart flawse said:
Do they want an apology from the Africans who captured and sold them to European traders? Dunno..you dont hear much about it.
Not much better really. As has been pointed out, slavery existed in some form or other for millennia. But the industrial scale of the African/American slave trade, and more importantly, the massive boost the produce of it gave to the USA/UK to enable our current standard of living is crucial.
And before anyone says it: yes I know there were British and American people working as indentured servants or under punitive conditions in mills, mines, farms etc to enable the industrial revolution.
Though in my mind they are separate enough things not to be conflated.
fwiw I don't agree with punative reparations, but acknowledging slavery links is an important step in terms of dealing with the legacy.
A step some still seem unable/unwilling to take.
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