Reduce State pension for those choosing not to have kids?
Poll: Reduce State pension for those choosing not to have kids?
Total Members Polled: 236
Discussion
Like everywhere else in the Western world, our demographics are basically f
ked.
When the State pension was first introduced in its modern form after WW2, there were about 6 working age people for every retiree. That dropped to around 4 by the nineties, is not much above 3 now, and is predicted to drop to 2.5 by 2040. More and more tax burden is being placed on fewer and fewer people, and unless we start having more kids, the situation is only going to get worse.
Not having children in Western society is one of the most selfish things anyone can choose to do, and arguments along the lines of "but I pay my taxes to educate other people's children" are easily undone if you just think of it as everyone repaying the cost of their own education once they're working instead.
It costs an absolute fortune to raise children, so anyone able to have them and choosing not to should be able to far more easily save for their own retirement than a parent who is raising children on the same salary, and that's without considering that many parents will take reduced income in the early years in particular of raising their kids. Why, therefore, shouldn't people choosing to opt out of participating in raising the future generation - which they're arguably going to need even more than parents in later life, specifically because they won't have kids of their own to help out with their care etc - have a reduced pension and/or increased taxation instead to help spread the cost?
Obviously I'd exempt people who are medically unable to have children, as it would be completely inhumane to penalise someone in that circumstance, but where it's a lifestyle choice, how can anyone justify taking the same pension out when they've done less to contribute to society and will likely cost society more in later life?
ked.When the State pension was first introduced in its modern form after WW2, there were about 6 working age people for every retiree. That dropped to around 4 by the nineties, is not much above 3 now, and is predicted to drop to 2.5 by 2040. More and more tax burden is being placed on fewer and fewer people, and unless we start having more kids, the situation is only going to get worse.
Not having children in Western society is one of the most selfish things anyone can choose to do, and arguments along the lines of "but I pay my taxes to educate other people's children" are easily undone if you just think of it as everyone repaying the cost of their own education once they're working instead.
It costs an absolute fortune to raise children, so anyone able to have them and choosing not to should be able to far more easily save for their own retirement than a parent who is raising children on the same salary, and that's without considering that many parents will take reduced income in the early years in particular of raising their kids. Why, therefore, shouldn't people choosing to opt out of participating in raising the future generation - which they're arguably going to need even more than parents in later life, specifically because they won't have kids of their own to help out with their care etc - have a reduced pension and/or increased taxation instead to help spread the cost?
Obviously I'd exempt people who are medically unable to have children, as it would be completely inhumane to penalise someone in that circumstance, but where it's a lifestyle choice, how can anyone justify taking the same pension out when they've done less to contribute to society and will likely cost society more in later life?
If you stop paying state pension to me, I assume I can get my NI contributions back then?
Yep, thought not.
From my view, having more kids in the world is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are too many people on the earth, so why not let foreigners come in to help where they're needed.
Yep, thought not.
From my view, having more kids in the world is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are too many people on the earth, so why not let foreigners come in to help where they're needed.
Eric Mc said:
Kermit power said:
but where it's a lifestyle choice
How would that be checked?Do you need to report each time you have sex to a goverment scheme so they can asses if you are trying hard enough to get pregnant?
What a load of nonsense.
And how does this sqaure with there being way to many people on the planet?
sociopath said:
If you stop paying state pension to me, I assume I can get my NI contributions back then?
Yep, thought not.
From my view, having more kids in the world is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are too many people on the earth, so why not let foreigners come in to help where they're needed.
Too many people for what?Yep, thought not.
From my view, having more kids in the world is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are too many people on the earth, so why not let foreigners come in to help where they're needed.
Joke post really...
But I would go one step further, I would make a county sprog free.
No schools, no school run, no over priced things to do at half term, all the shops would sell things to suit single people not (effing "families") Housing would be to suit smaller spaces so more could be built in less space. No big cars, less parking needed.
This is a daft idea for all sorts of reasons, but for those of us who choose not to breed, there is very little in the wold to suit us, everything revolves around the majority, families, so much so you get sick of hearing the bloody word, shops, councils, politicians, everything, housing, shopping, holidays, it all revolves around sodding families and kids.
I understand why, but really, when you are single it is a clear choice with only really downsides, very few benefits, as you are hot so hard in so many ways, yet you are the one NOT contributing as much to health, nothing to education, less pollution, etc etc. It is not really my FAULT I chose to be alone for long periods of life, it just happened that way, yet I do often feel very marginalised in society and as a whole.
No politician ever speaks for me which is why i never vote for any of them.
But I would go one step further, I would make a county sprog free.
No schools, no school run, no over priced things to do at half term, all the shops would sell things to suit single people not (effing "families") Housing would be to suit smaller spaces so more could be built in less space. No big cars, less parking needed.
This is a daft idea for all sorts of reasons, but for those of us who choose not to breed, there is very little in the wold to suit us, everything revolves around the majority, families, so much so you get sick of hearing the bloody word, shops, councils, politicians, everything, housing, shopping, holidays, it all revolves around sodding families and kids.
I understand why, but really, when you are single it is a clear choice with only really downsides, very few benefits, as you are hot so hard in so many ways, yet you are the one NOT contributing as much to health, nothing to education, less pollution, etc etc. It is not really my FAULT I chose to be alone for long periods of life, it just happened that way, yet I do often feel very marginalised in society and as a whole.
No politician ever speaks for me which is why i never vote for any of them.
As part of these proposals to boost the birth rate, I assume you're proposing that same-sex couples would be given access to fertility and surrogacy services on the NHS, so that those that do want children but are unable to due to the additional costs involved are able to have children?
Or is it your positon that being in a same sex relationship is a "lifestyle choice"?
Or is it your positon that being in a same sex relationship is a "lifestyle choice"?
sociopath said:
If you stop paying state pension to me, I assume I can get my NI contributions back then?
Yep, thought not.
From my view, having more kids in the world is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are too many people on the earth, so why not let foreigners come in to help where they're needed.
Why not let foreigners come in? Because too many people voted for Brexit to stop that from happening, so no government can openly do it now to the extent required.Yep, thought not.
From my view, having more kids in the world is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are too many people on the earth, so why not let foreigners come in to help where they're needed.
What's the alternative? Selective euthanasia?
There aren't enough working people to support the elderly properly and it's only going to get worse, so with people not having kids and not being willing to pay more into the system to compensate for that, what else is the answer?
Kermit power said:
Why not let foreigners come in? Because too many people voted for Brexit to stop that from happening, so no government can openly do it now to the extent required.
What's the alternative? Selective euthanasia?
There aren't enough working people to support the elderly properly and it's only going to get worse, so with people not having kids and not being willing to pay more into the system to compensate for that, what else is the answer?
Have the wealth wrapped up in their homes help pay for it. What's the alternative? Selective euthanasia?
There aren't enough working people to support the elderly properly and it's only going to get worse, so with people not having kids and not being willing to pay more into the system to compensate for that, what else is the answer?
Not forced sale because that’s wrong but a charge against it.
Rivenink said:
As part of these proposals to boost the birth rate, I assume you're proposing that same-sex couples would be given access to fertility and surrogacy services on the NHS, so that those that do want children but are unable to due to the additional costs involved are able to have children?
Or is it your positon that being in a same sex relationship is a "lifestyle choice"?
Yes, that would be absolutely fine. Anyone choosing to take on the cost and work required to raise kids, whether via adoption, surrogacy or natural birth etc is doing their bit in my book.Or is it your positon that being in a same sex relationship is a "lifestyle choice"?
It's the people who chose not to participate in that yet only pay the same taxes as everyone else but still expect the same access provided in later life by the ever dwindling number of working adults that need a reset.
It's quite simple. If we carry on as we are, there will come a time in the not too distant future where there just won't be enough working people to either pay for the elderly or provide the services they need, so people chosing not to have kids can moan about it all they want, they're a big part of a problem that has to be resolved somehow.
LukeBrown66 said:
Joke post really...
But I would go one step further, I would make a county sprog free.
No schools, no school run, no over priced things to do at half term, all the shops would sell things to suit single people not (effing "families") Housing would be to suit smaller spaces so more could be built in less space. No big cars, less parking needed.
This is a daft idea for all sorts of reasons, but for those of us who choose not to breed, there is very little in the wold to suit us, everything revolves around the majority, families, so much so you get sick of hearing the bloody word, shops, councils, politicians, everything, housing, shopping, holidays, it all revolves around sodding families and kids.
I understand why, but really, when you are single it is a clear choice with only really downsides, very few benefits, as you are hot so hard in so many ways, yet you are the one NOT contributing as much to health, nothing to education, less pollution, etc etc. It is not really my FAULT I chose to be alone for long periods of life, it just happened that way, yet I do often feel very marginalised in society and as a whole.
No politician ever speaks for me which is why i never vote for any of them.
I think you discribe living in a city centre. Kind of. But I would go one step further, I would make a county sprog free.
No schools, no school run, no over priced things to do at half term, all the shops would sell things to suit single people not (effing "families") Housing would be to suit smaller spaces so more could be built in less space. No big cars, less parking needed.
This is a daft idea for all sorts of reasons, but for those of us who choose not to breed, there is very little in the wold to suit us, everything revolves around the majority, families, so much so you get sick of hearing the bloody word, shops, councils, politicians, everything, housing, shopping, holidays, it all revolves around sodding families and kids.
I understand why, but really, when you are single it is a clear choice with only really downsides, very few benefits, as you are hot so hard in so many ways, yet you are the one NOT contributing as much to health, nothing to education, less pollution, etc etc. It is not really my FAULT I chose to be alone for long periods of life, it just happened that way, yet I do often feel very marginalised in society and as a whole.
No politician ever speaks for me which is why i never vote for any of them.
Kermit power said:
Why not let foreigners come in? Because too many people voted for Brexit to stop that from happening, so no government can openly do it now to the extent required.
What's the alternative? Selective euthanasia?
There aren't enough working people to support the elderly properly and it's only going to get worse, so with people not having kids and not being willing to pay more into the system to compensate for that, what else is the answer?
Really? I think there are a lot of people on benefits who could work but decide not to. What's the alternative? Selective euthanasia?
There aren't enough working people to support the elderly properly and it's only going to get worse, so with people not having kids and not being willing to pay more into the system to compensate for that, what else is the answer?
No doubt we need seasonal migrant workers because our unemployed are unable to pick crops or work in hotels.
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