False Accusation of Rape
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6415...
Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
Saw a really interesting interview about this case, I'll try to find it again.
Here it is. Long but worth it. https://youtu.be/L5D5k1GH5aM
Here it is. Long but worth it. https://youtu.be/L5D5k1GH5aM
Oliver Hardy said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6415...
Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
That BBC article says that she was convicted of Perverting the Course of Justice. No mention of her sentence; assume that hasn't happened yet. Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
The article quite carefully articulates the distress and harm that she caused her victims.
I didn't see any trivialization of the case, nor anyone suggesting that criminal justice system cannot prosecute women who falsely accuse. Clearly in this case, they did.
Cases like this absolutely should not be trivialised. The police perhaps should have done a better job of establishing the accussed mens guilt before getting to the stage of putting them in prison on remand. This case, and all similar ones should be examples of what justice should mean: accusations believed, investigated and the evidence diligently collected and considered to establish the facts of the case.
These kinds of cases should not be used to downplay the violence that women do face. If this issue of false accusations vs real accusations were a coin, one side is heavily weighted.
Oliver Hardy said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6415...
Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
Strange example to use when it hasn't been trivialized and she has been convinced. She's clearly a very mixed up woman in need of serious help. Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
For every case of false rape there are far more cases of men getting away with rape by a significant margin.
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 14th March 06:29
Rivenink said:
Oliver Hardy said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6415...
Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
That BBC article says that she was convicted of Perverting the Course of Justice. No mention of her sentence; assume that hasn't happened yet. Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
The article quite carefully articulates the distress and harm that she caused her victims.
I didn't see any trivialization of the case, nor anyone suggesting that criminal justice system cannot prosecute women who falsely accuse. Clearly in this case, they did.
Cases like this absolutely should not be trivialised. The police perhaps should have done a better job of establishing the accussed mens guilt before getting to the stage of putting them in prison on remand. This case, and all similar ones should be examples of what justice should mean: accusations believed, investigated and the evidence diligently collected and considered to establish the facts of the case.
These kinds of cases should not be used to downplay the violence that women do face. If this issue of false accusations vs real accusations were a coin, one side is heavily weighted.
Thanks for Driver101 for the link!
Edited I did copy and paste the wrong name, thanks to OldGermanHeaps !!!
Edited by Oliver Hardy on Tuesday 14th March 00:26
Oliver Hardy said:
Clearly in this case it was not trivialised and for once there was a prosecution, but generally this is not the case. In the past there have been high profile cases, but the women never did get prosecuted and when pressed on such matters on programs like Question Time and Politics Live the answer from politicians is that false accusation of rape shouldn't be prosecuted as it will put women off reporting rape.
Thanks for Driver101 for the link!
I've not posted any link. Only a few posts into the thread and the observations aren't good. Thanks for Driver101 for the link!
Women are put off reporting rapes. Very, very few cases end up with convictions. The level of scrutiny and humiliation isn't worth the risk to get a conviction. Women are scared to report rapes due to the ordeal and chance of getting the rapist convicted very low. Then if there isn't the evidence to convict people will then accuse them of lying.
Driver101 said:
Oliver Hardy said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6415...
Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
Strange example to use when it hasn't been trivialized and she has been convinced. She's clearly a very mixed up women in need of serious help. Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
For every case of false rape there are far more cases of men getting away with rape by a significant margin.
TX.
Oliver Hardy said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-6415...
Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
Surely the story behind the article you've linked to contradicts your claim doesn't it?Whenever false accusation of rape comes up it is trivialized by politicians and other groups, we can't prosecute women, it will put other women off reporting violence against them is the message, yet when we read about these stories of these men and effects of being falsely accused of rape on their lives the consequences seem just as bad
A few years ago a lad I worked with started seeing a girl at work
She moved in with him in the house he owned and all seemed fine
Then she made an allegation that he had repeatedly raped her and subjected her to domestic violence whilst they were cohabiting
He was arrested, charged and remanded in custody, he was immediately suspended from work and she had the kitchen sink thrown at her in support including giving her a new role and reduced hours etc
He spent three months on remand in a Cat A prison before they agreed bail conditions with his parents outing up a significant surety
He maintained his innocence throughout
Part of his bail conditions was that he wasn’t allowed to return to the house that he owned, that she was still living in, but not even allowed to enter the area within the M25 where not only his house was but also his legal team and family
He had to stay with a friend outside London who offered to put him up
Almost 18 months later the matter came to trial at the Southwark Crown Court
The trial collapsed on the first day, and all charges against him were dropped after the prosecution admitted that the Police had withheld evidence that she had a long history of making false allegations against men in previous relationships and had in previous trials been proved to be a serial liar
The defence had intended to call a number of witnesses to these facts
But it didn’t end there, she was still living in his house and refusing to move out and it took some considerable time to get her out and his house back
The employer continued to support her and victimise him by keeping her in post and offering him a role in a completely different location and area of work
Complaints were made against the Met Police and particularly the Detective Sergeant who was the OIC in the Domestic Violence Unit who I believe was subsequently disciplined
Suffice to say it destroyed him and he ended up quitting and moving away based on completely uncorroborated and untrue allegations from a woman whose account was never challenged but just accepted.
The really appalling part was that the Police were aware throughout of her history of false allegations ( which had previously gone to trial ) but continued with the prosecution of this chap and deliberately withheld that information from the defence and the Courts
She moved in with him in the house he owned and all seemed fine
Then she made an allegation that he had repeatedly raped her and subjected her to domestic violence whilst they were cohabiting
He was arrested, charged and remanded in custody, he was immediately suspended from work and she had the kitchen sink thrown at her in support including giving her a new role and reduced hours etc
He spent three months on remand in a Cat A prison before they agreed bail conditions with his parents outing up a significant surety
He maintained his innocence throughout
Part of his bail conditions was that he wasn’t allowed to return to the house that he owned, that she was still living in, but not even allowed to enter the area within the M25 where not only his house was but also his legal team and family
He had to stay with a friend outside London who offered to put him up
Almost 18 months later the matter came to trial at the Southwark Crown Court
The trial collapsed on the first day, and all charges against him were dropped after the prosecution admitted that the Police had withheld evidence that she had a long history of making false allegations against men in previous relationships and had in previous trials been proved to be a serial liar
The defence had intended to call a number of witnesses to these facts
But it didn’t end there, she was still living in his house and refusing to move out and it took some considerable time to get her out and his house back
The employer continued to support her and victimise him by keeping her in post and offering him a role in a completely different location and area of work
Complaints were made against the Met Police and particularly the Detective Sergeant who was the OIC in the Domestic Violence Unit who I believe was subsequently disciplined
Suffice to say it destroyed him and he ended up quitting and moving away based on completely uncorroborated and untrue allegations from a woman whose account was never challenged but just accepted.
The really appalling part was that the Police were aware throughout of her history of false allegations ( which had previously gone to trial ) but continued with the prosecution of this chap and deliberately withheld that information from the defence and the Courts
Edited by Earthdweller on Tuesday 14th March 10:01
Earthdweller said:
A few years ago a lad I worked with started seeing a girl at work
She moved in with him in the house he owned and all seemed fine
Then she made an allegation that he had repeatedly raped her and subjected her to domestic violence whilst they were cohabiting
He was arrested, charged and remanded in custody, he was immediately suspended from work and she had the kitchen sink thrown at her in support including giving her a new role and reduced hours etc
He spent three months on remand in a Cat A prison before they agreed bail conditions with his parents outing up a significant surety
He maintained his innocence throughout
Part of his bail conditions was that he wasn’t allowed to return to the house that he owned, that she was still living in, but not even allowed to enter the area within the M25 where not only his house was but also his legal team and family
He had to stay with a friend outside London who offered to put him up
Almost 18 months later the matter came to trial at the Southwark Crown Court
The trial collapsed on the first day, and all charges against him were dropped after the prosecution admitted that the Police had withheld evidence that she had a long history of making false allegations against men in previous relationships and had in previous trials been proved to be a serial liar
The defence had intended to call a number of witnesses to these facts
But it didn’t end there, she was still living in his house and refusing to move out and it took some considerable time to get her out and his house back
The employer continued to support her and victimise him by keeping her in post and offering him a role in a completely different location and area of work
Complaints were made against the Met Police and particularly the Detective Sergeant who was the OIC in the Domestic Violence Unit who I believe was subsequently disciplined
Suffice to say it destroyed him and he ended up quitting and moving away based on completely uncorroborated and untrue allegations from a woman whose account was never challenged but just accepted.
The really appalling part was that the Police were aware throughout of her history of false allegations ( which had previously gone to trial ) but continued with the prosecution of this chap and deliberately withheld that information from the defence and the Courts
That does sound horrific.She moved in with him in the house he owned and all seemed fine
Then she made an allegation that he had repeatedly raped her and subjected her to domestic violence whilst they were cohabiting
He was arrested, charged and remanded in custody, he was immediately suspended from work and she had the kitchen sink thrown at her in support including giving her a new role and reduced hours etc
He spent three months on remand in a Cat A prison before they agreed bail conditions with his parents outing up a significant surety
He maintained his innocence throughout
Part of his bail conditions was that he wasn’t allowed to return to the house that he owned, that she was still living in, but not even allowed to enter the area within the M25 where not only his house was but also his legal team and family
He had to stay with a friend outside London who offered to put him up
Almost 18 months later the matter came to trial at the Southwark Crown Court
The trial collapsed on the first day, and all charges against him were dropped after the prosecution admitted that the Police had withheld evidence that she had a long history of making false allegations against men in previous relationships and had in previous trials been proved to be a serial liar
The defence had intended to call a number of witnesses to these facts
But it didn’t end there, she was still living in his house and refusing to move out and it took some considerable time to get her out and his house back
The employer continued to support her and victimise him by keeping her in post and offering him a role in a completely different location and area of work
Complaints were made against the Met Police and particularly the Detective Sergeant who was the OIC in the Domestic Violence Unit who I believe was subsequently disciplined
Suffice to say it destroyed him and he ended up quitting and moving away based on completely uncorroborated and untrue allegations from a woman whose account was never challenged but just accepted.
The really appalling part was that the Police were aware throughout of her history of false allegations ( which had previously gone to trial ) but continued with the prosecution of this chap and deliberately withheld that information from the defence and the Courts
Edited by Earthdweller on Tuesday 14th March 10:01
But I can't see what can be changed though? The due legal process was followed. The trial did what it was supposed to do.
It's not for the police to prosecute in any case.
And had the above been an actual rape scenario, how could it work then? There would be no fair trial process if police/CPS dropped charges on the basis of previous behaviour.
oyster said:
That does sound horrific.
But I can't see what can be changed though? The due legal process was followed. The trial did what it was supposed to do.
It's not for the police to prosecute in any case.
And had the above been an actual rape scenario, how could it work then? There would be no fair trial process if police/CPS dropped charges on the basis of previous behaviour.
The due legal process was not followed But I can't see what can be changed though? The due legal process was followed. The trial did what it was supposed to do.
It's not for the police to prosecute in any case.
And had the above been an actual rape scenario, how could it work then? There would be no fair trial process if police/CPS dropped charges on the basis of previous behaviour.
The Police OIC has a duty of disclosure to the defence and also the CPS
The fact that the complainant was an unreliable and discredited witness was withheld from the defence and the CPS
I have no doubt that had it been disclosed ( as legally required) they matter would never have gone to trial.
Earthdweller said:
oyster said:
That does sound horrific.
But I can't see what can be changed though? The due legal process was followed. The trial did what it was supposed to do.
It's not for the police to prosecute in any case.
And had the above been an actual rape scenario, how could it work then? There would be no fair trial process if police/CPS dropped charges on the basis of previous behaviour.
The due legal process was not followed But I can't see what can be changed though? The due legal process was followed. The trial did what it was supposed to do.
It's not for the police to prosecute in any case.
And had the above been an actual rape scenario, how could it work then? There would be no fair trial process if police/CPS dropped charges on the basis of previous behaviour.
The Police OIC has a duty of disclosure to the defence and also the CPS
The fact that the complainant was an unreliable and discredited witness was withheld from the defence and the CPS
I have no doubt that had it been disclosed ( as legally required) they matter would never have gone to trial.
Understood. Horrible story.
I hope the guy took the company to tribunal though, he would have had a strong case.
It's a fine line though - we don't want women fearing to come forward and report rape.
Earthdweller said:
A few years ago a lad I worked with started seeing a girl at work
She moved in with him in the house he owned and all seemed fine
Then she made an allegation that he had repeatedly raped her and subjected her to domestic violence whilst they were cohabiting
He was arrested, charged and remanded in custody, he was immediately suspended from work and she had the kitchen sink thrown at her in support including giving her a new role and reduced hours etc
He spent three months on remand in a Cat A prison before they agreed bail conditions with his parents outing up a significant surety
He maintained his innocence throughout
Part of his bail conditions was that he wasn’t allowed to return to the house that he owned, that she was still living in, but not even allowed to enter the area within the M25 where not only his house was but also his legal team and family
He had to stay with a friend outside London who offered to put him up
Almost 18 months later the matter came to trial at the Southwark Crown Court
The trial collapsed on the first day, and all charges against him were dropped after the prosecution admitted that the Police had withheld evidence that she had a long history of making false allegations against men in previous relationships and had in previous trials been proved to be a serial liar
The defence had intended to call a number of witnesses to these facts
But it didn’t end there, she was still living in his house and refusing to move out and it took some considerable time to get her out and his house back
The employer continued to support her and victimise him by keeping her in post and offering him a role in a completely different location and area of work
Complaints were made against the Met Police and particularly the Detective Sergeant who was the OIC in the Domestic Violence Unit who I believe was subsequently disciplined
Suffice to say it destroyed him and he ended up quitting and moving away based on completely uncorroborated and untrue allegations from a woman whose account was never challenged but just accepted.
The really appalling part was that the Police were aware throughout of her history of false allegations ( which had previously gone to trial ) but continued with the prosecution of this chap and deliberately withheld that information from the defence and the Courts
I try and believe people when they say something, but this reads like a MRA fever dream, I have so many questions. Was there any local news reporting about it or anything?She moved in with him in the house he owned and all seemed fine
Then she made an allegation that he had repeatedly raped her and subjected her to domestic violence whilst they were cohabiting
He was arrested, charged and remanded in custody, he was immediately suspended from work and she had the kitchen sink thrown at her in support including giving her a new role and reduced hours etc
He spent three months on remand in a Cat A prison before they agreed bail conditions with his parents outing up a significant surety
He maintained his innocence throughout
Part of his bail conditions was that he wasn’t allowed to return to the house that he owned, that she was still living in, but not even allowed to enter the area within the M25 where not only his house was but also his legal team and family
He had to stay with a friend outside London who offered to put him up
Almost 18 months later the matter came to trial at the Southwark Crown Court
The trial collapsed on the first day, and all charges against him were dropped after the prosecution admitted that the Police had withheld evidence that she had a long history of making false allegations against men in previous relationships and had in previous trials been proved to be a serial liar
The defence had intended to call a number of witnesses to these facts
But it didn’t end there, she was still living in his house and refusing to move out and it took some considerable time to get her out and his house back
The employer continued to support her and victimise him by keeping her in post and offering him a role in a completely different location and area of work
Complaints were made against the Met Police and particularly the Detective Sergeant who was the OIC in the Domestic Violence Unit who I believe was subsequently disciplined
Suffice to say it destroyed him and he ended up quitting and moving away based on completely uncorroborated and untrue allegations from a woman whose account was never challenged but just accepted.
The really appalling part was that the Police were aware throughout of her history of false allegations ( which had previously gone to trial ) but continued with the prosecution of this chap and deliberately withheld that information from the defence and the Courts
Edited by Earthdweller on Tuesday 14th March 10:01
Kes Arevo said:
Driver101 said:
For every case of false rape there are far more cases of men getting away with rape by a significant margin.
Not sure how that's relevant to a case of false accusation?Let's not forget that a false allegation of rape not only harms the man concerned, but all women. Because if there were no false allegations of rape, life would be a lot more difficult for rapists, and easier for the victims of rape, because we'd know any allegation of rape was true.
I don't think women are on the whole sympathetic to other women who make false allegations of rape.
I don't think women are on the whole sympathetic to other women who make false allegations of rape.
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