The Media, Business and the Future of Capitalism

[ant1973]

https://www.edelman.com/sites/g/files/aatuss191/fi...

This is a fascinating insight into public opinion across a wide spectrum of matters in various countries.

The astonishing expectations that are placed on "Business" appear to place them in a position akin to de facto governments.

• 72% of people think the CEOs are obliged to defend "facts" and call out questionable science.

• 71% think that CEOs are obliged to pull their money from platforms that peddle "misinformation".

Correspondingly, the state and the media is less trusted than business.

Scientists are the most trusted group of all.

I do wonder to what extent the blurring of lines between the state and business is compatible with capitalism. If companies have to take account of a multitude of issues, can they really say they are capitalists. Perhaps ultimately, this this is purest version of capitalism whereby companies are beholden to their customers (and potential customers).

[ZedLeg]

I think businesses become more trusted because they can bend the truth in ways that others can't ironically.

Some people will see the image and PR a company puts out and think that it also believes in their values. Of course businesses don't have any values, they're about making money.

[2xChevrons]

ant1973 said:

I do wonder to what extent the blurring of lines between the state and business is compatible with capitalism. If companies have to take account of a multitude of issues, can they really say they are capitalists.Perhaps ultimately, this this is purest version of capitalism whereby companies are beholden to their customers (and potential customers).

I think this is the gist of it. We've had over 40 years of neoliberalism (of various but similar flavours) in the West, and a core part of that ideology is turning as much as possible into consumer : provider relationships and letting market forces dictate outcomes. And a core part of that is that instead of government proactively regulating business or determining its actions or courses, you let the consumers of society do it en masse. That puts the onus for doing what society sees as 'moral', 'correct' or 'good' behaviors on business rather than society empowering (or expecting) government to do it on its behalf. Businesses have to be morally and culturally aligned with their consumers, and consumers expect their businesses to behave appropriately on pain of losing their custom.

It's not so much the blurring of business and the state, but a gradual transfer of responsibility and power from what is traditionally seen as the state's sphere to that of business.

[ant1973]

ZedLeg said:

I think businesses become more trusted because they can bend the truth in ways that others can't ironically.

Some people will see the image and PR a company puts out and think that it also believes in their values. Of course businesses don't have any values, they're about making money.

It would appear to be straightforwardly about giving customers what they want.

I suppose the issue is really about how customers came to want those things?

I know that when I buy Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream is going to be pretty good ice cream. I don't have any expectations about their involvement in foreign policy - and it's not really linked to anything else they do.

I can recall back in the day that there were all manner of demands for cessation of trade with South Africa, so it perhaps been no more than a developing trend that I have paid little attention to.

Chances are I would still buy Ben & Jerry's ice cream if they said nada about foreign policy.

[Flooble]

ZedLeg said:

I think businesses become more trusted because they can bend the truth in ways that others can't ironically.

Some people will see the image and PR a company puts out and think that it also believes in their values. Of course businesses don't have any values, they're about making money.

Yep, I've had this discussion with people people. A business is amoral - it does not have any intrinsic conscience of its own. That's why you have to regulate. Relying on customers to steer companies is, I feel, a dangerous approach. There is a distinct lag in any feedback loop coming from actual customer behaviour. E.g. "Sales are down this month, probably just a glitch - do more marketing. Sales are still down - maybe this isn't temporary. Sales are still down - what have we done wrong and was it this month, last month, the month before?"

By contrast, by being immediately present and visible the shouty pressure groups will be able to immediately push CEOs down paths that get rid of the shouty people on the doorstep.

It has to be a fairly catastrophic mis-step for a company to immediately notice customers aren't happy with something it did.

[MikeT66]

Firstly, I'm not too sure that scientists are as trusted as they were in say, 2019. There's been far too much deliberate obfuscation, hubris and bending of facts to maintain that belief, I think.

Corporations by and large are most certainly not trustworthy...
https://www.accaglobal.com/my/en/member/member/acc...

"As Australian philosopher RE Ewin has written: ‘Corporations, unlike the people who run them, have no emotional life. Corporations operate at the level of reason and requirement, but they do not get angry at being mistreated, they are not sickened by tales of the squalor in which some people have to live, and, generally, they simply do not have the emotional life required of a being that is to care about things as things must be cared about if one is to possess a virtue.’ This is why some people consider corporations to be moral actors only in a limited sense, with rights and duties that extend only as far as their legal obligations, but no further."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-humani...

"If corporations are indeed "persons," their mental condition can accurately be described as pathological. Corporations have no innate moral impulses, and in fact they exist solely for the purpose of making money. As such, these "persons" are systemically driven to do whatever is necessary to increase revenues and profits, with no regard for ethical issues that might nag real people."

I think America, with the massive lobbying power of the big corporations, is worse than here - but am in no doubt that similar goes on in the UK.

As long as media, big business and governments are incestuously in bed with each other we will not improve either the world or our lot.