Drag Queen Story Hour
Discussion
This subject resurfaced again recently as there were protests and counter protests over an event scheduled at a local pub.
While it's a ridiculous thing to protest against, it also strikes me as an unusual form of children's entertainment.
Most of us grew up with panto and I was once on stage with Window Tw
key played by Nicholas Parsons. Later, senior staff at secondary school raised the roof performing in drag for an end of year assembly.
To that end I find it entertaining but obviously that's a narrow view, as drag in its cult form has a wider significance in terms of freedom of expression and sexuality.
Those rightly protesting what is a protest by a right wing group, describe the show as simply 'jolly people in fun outfits telling stories', which seems a touch disingenuous to me. Were you to remove the sexuality of Burlesque, but keep the 'fun outfits', you'd just have a glamorous Parisian woman, and that simply wouldn't be something you'd perform for children, probably because you wouldn't sell many tickets to the same Yummy Mummies.
Where do you all place this on a scale of 1 being harmless fun, and 10 being indoctrination of children?
While it's a ridiculous thing to protest against, it also strikes me as an unusual form of children's entertainment.
Most of us grew up with panto and I was once on stage with Window Tw
key played by Nicholas Parsons. Later, senior staff at secondary school raised the roof performing in drag for an end of year assembly. To that end I find it entertaining but obviously that's a narrow view, as drag in its cult form has a wider significance in terms of freedom of expression and sexuality.
Those rightly protesting what is a protest by a right wing group, describe the show as simply 'jolly people in fun outfits telling stories', which seems a touch disingenuous to me. Were you to remove the sexuality of Burlesque, but keep the 'fun outfits', you'd just have a glamorous Parisian woman, and that simply wouldn't be something you'd perform for children, probably because you wouldn't sell many tickets to the same Yummy Mummies.
Where do you all place this on a scale of 1 being harmless fun, and 10 being indoctrination of children?
Edited by R Mutt on Sunday 19th February 22:41
What do you think is being indoctrinated? Do you think the parents attending with their children are complicit in the indoctrination, or are having the wool pulled over their eyes? Do you think that parents should be free to choose the events that they take their children to, assuming the content is legal and decent?
further edit: And to add some answers rather than a series of questions - the people protesting are usually the type who believe that they have the sole rights to decide what is right for their children (anything from what their are taught at school to the manner of discipline their receive), but want to prevent others from having the same rights.
I believe in most cases the objection is that the drag queens involved often perform at LGBT venues, and although the content there is more adult it is (I believe) not all that much ruder than you could see on late-night TV.
(edits for readability
)
further edit: And to add some answers rather than a series of questions - the people protesting are usually the type who believe that they have the sole rights to decide what is right for their children (anything from what their are taught at school to the manner of discipline their receive), but want to prevent others from having the same rights.
I believe in most cases the objection is that the drag queens involved often perform at LGBT venues, and although the content there is more adult it is (I believe) not all that much ruder than you could see on late-night TV.
(edits for readability
) Edited by Gareth79 on Sunday 19th February 23:14
I know it's a bit of a 'boo down with this sort of thing' NP&E topic but I think it's an interesting discussion to distinguish a very longstanding tradition of men playing women on stage and drag acts.
Men playing women dates back, at least, to Elizabethan times. In those days women on stage was seen the equivalent of prostitution and not tolerated. Some of Shakespeare's cross dressing/misidentification/mimcry plots rely on a boy actor playing woman cross dressing as a young man.
Pantomime dames would appear to have quite a bit in common with drag but I would draw a distinction between a role and a persona. I also think the way Dames are presented in a comically desexualised manner whereas drag acts are sometimes exaggerated representations of female form and dress. I would also draw a distinction between suspended disbelief of the theatre and the intimacy of storytelling.
The market must be very small given the competition for parents' spending on entertainment. A bit like the weird monkey swinging dildo character I wonder if there is an element of provoking the sensibilities of mainstream thinkers.
I think they both represent a kind of performative misogyny which I'm quite uneasy with. Taking on the identity of others is taboo or becoming taboo in relation to portrayal of transgender, disability and race. I wonder, despite their heritage, whether dames and drag will go the way of blackface.
Men playing women dates back, at least, to Elizabethan times. In those days women on stage was seen the equivalent of prostitution and not tolerated. Some of Shakespeare's cross dressing/misidentification/mimcry plots rely on a boy actor playing woman cross dressing as a young man.
Pantomime dames would appear to have quite a bit in common with drag but I would draw a distinction between a role and a persona. I also think the way Dames are presented in a comically desexualised manner whereas drag acts are sometimes exaggerated representations of female form and dress. I would also draw a distinction between suspended disbelief of the theatre and the intimacy of storytelling.
The market must be very small given the competition for parents' spending on entertainment. A bit like the weird monkey swinging dildo character I wonder if there is an element of provoking the sensibilities of mainstream thinkers.
I think they both represent a kind of performative misogyny which I'm quite uneasy with. Taking on the identity of others is taboo or becoming taboo in relation to portrayal of transgender, disability and race. I wonder, despite their heritage, whether dames and drag will go the way of blackface.
If it is voluntary and parents and children have the choice I cannot see the problem. Live and let live seems to be less and less of a mantra these days but then the needle has always swung from side to side. Having spent my life in an increasingly 'liberal' society no doubt the needle is due the adjustment that now seems to be taking place with extremists on both sides pushing for restrictions.
bobbo89 said:
The thing with drag is that it's very different to panto in that it's adult entertainment and quite often very sexualised.
What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
Because there's a secret committee where they devise ideas to get maximum blood pressure rise in Gammons and Karens.What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
Some kids will have grown up with their parents watching Drag Race so it's normal for them, and they probably love having people like off of the telly coming to tell them stories, the same way people of my generation loved having the Green Cross Code man or, to a lesser extent, Brian Jacks.
ScotHill said:
Some kids will have grown up with their parents watching Drag Race so it's normal for them, and they probably love having people like off of the telly coming to tell them stories, the same way people of my generation loved having the Green Cross Code man or, to a lesser extent, Brian Jacks.
BingoIt’s a complete nothing of a drama from people with nothing better to do.
A dude with a funny name in a bit of make up is essentially a clown.
Roofless Toothless said:
I live in Chelmsford, the home town of Sir Grayson Perry. If he were to attend an event, or give a talk about his work, should my grandchildren not be allowed to attend?
I'm going to say that depends... will he be on his Harley? I say that because motorcycles are a very dangerous form of transport and we wouldn't want anyone to be influenced by things that could kill them.Roofless Toothless said:
I live in Chelmsford, the home town of Sir Grayson Perry. If he were to attend an event, or give a talk about his work, should my grandchildren not be allowed to attend?
If he has more scantily clad alter alter ego, than the Window Twkey type Claire, or his usual demure style of cross dress, that's still not a good analogy, as there would be a relevance to what he is presenting beyond reading a story in drag. bobbo89 said:
The thing with drag is that it's very different to panto in that it's adult entertainment and quite often very sexualised.
What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
Tell me you find gay men dressed as women arousing without telling me you find gay men dressed as women arousing. What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
bobbo89 said:
The thing with drag is that it's very different to panto in that it's adult entertainment and quite often very sexualised.
What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
Look at how threads like this one can go and some of the replies and ask yourself why people in that community might want to do things to help reassure parents and children that they aren't perverts and deviants and god knows what other sinister motives some people seem to ascribe to them.What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
sugerbear said:
bobbo89 said:
The thing with drag is that it's very different to panto in that it's adult entertainment and quite often very sexualised.
What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
Tell me you find gay men dressed as women arousing without telling me you find gay men dressed as women arousing. What I cant get my head around is why. Why have drag acts suddenly felt the need to start read books to kids? How has this even become a thing?
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