Britishvolt failure - ICE reprieve?
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64303149.amp
Well, who’d have thunk it? All these EVs coming on stream as a captive customer base and no-one can make the power source domestically in a viable way. It seems.
Well, who’d have thunk it? All these EVs coming on stream as a captive customer base and no-one can make the power source domestically in a viable way. It seems.
Pupp said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64303149.amp
Well, who’d have thunk it? All these EVs coming on stream as a captive customer base and no-one can make the power source domestically in a viable way. It seems.
It's just more demonstration that the Tories aren't actually for the economy. It's whoever their friends and donors are. Well, who’d have thunk it? All these EVs coming on stream as a captive customer base and no-one can make the power source domestically in a viable way. It seems.
Terrible shame. They were refused £30M by this levelling up government. Lady Mone (alledgely) embezelled more than that.
I recall this was hailed as a post-brexit success / opportunity by one of the usual brexiters, what is the excuse this time?
Brexit has given our government less money to support these opportunities to invest and create jobs - and the current "brexit government" could not care less.
Meanwhile 35 battery plants planned or under construction in the EU.
TDK-C60 said:
Terrible shame. They were refused £30M by this levelling up government. Lady Mone (alledgely) embezelled more than that.
I recall this was hailed as a post-brexit success / opportunity by one of the usual brexiters, what is the excuse this time?
Brexit has given our government less money to support these opportunities to invest and create jobs - and the current "brexit government" could not care less.
Meanwhile 35 battery plants planned or under construction in the EU.
It's more complicated than you make out, apparently they had no companies lined up to buy the batteries they were going to produced , it looked for all intensive purposes as a white elephant, if it had been Tesla or BMW who had a demand for the product fine, but but a new startup was always going to be a massive risk. I recall this was hailed as a post-brexit success / opportunity by one of the usual brexiters, what is the excuse this time?
Brexit has given our government less money to support these opportunities to invest and create jobs - and the current "brexit government" could not care less.
Meanwhile 35 battery plants planned or under construction in the EU.
PRTVR said:
TDK-C60 said:
Terrible shame. They were refused £30M by this levelling up government. Lady Mone (alledgely) embezelled more than that.
I recall this was hailed as a post-brexit success / opportunity by one of the usual brexiters, what is the excuse this time?
Brexit has given our government less money to support these opportunities to invest and create jobs - and the current "brexit government" could not care less.
Meanwhile 35 battery plants planned or under construction in the EU.
It's more complicated than you make out, apparently they had no companies lined up to buy the batteries they were going to produced , it looked for all intensive purposes as a white elephant, if it had been Tesla or BMW who had a demand for the product fine, but but a new startup was always going to be a massive risk. I recall this was hailed as a post-brexit success / opportunity by one of the usual brexiters, what is the excuse this time?
Brexit has given our government less money to support these opportunities to invest and create jobs - and the current "brexit government" could not care less.
Meanwhile 35 battery plants planned or under construction in the EU.
I don’t imagine Maggie bagging Nissan into Sunderland all those years ago was a trivial courtship.
I don’t see much effort or long term vision. £30m is buttons if this could have been a genuine rung on the ladder. The UK doesn’t have a great track record for investment, but not everything succeeds - there is always risk. Did they give up too soon on this? Maybe.
PRTVR said:
It's more complicated than you make out, apparently they had no companies lined up to buy the batteries they were going to produced ,
This. IIRC they sent some prototype batteries to potential customers for testing about four months ago. There's a long way between "here's a possible product, do you want the first real ones in three years" and "yes here's an order to supply my entire EV production which is an existential make-or-break issue for my entire company".Quite - this type of production is a long term investment, and the UK is rubbish at that. Too long to work out a strategy, then short termism when cash is required. Private financiers probably looked at us and realised quickly that major investment in something like a battery plant was better made elsewhere.
Whoozit said:
PRTVR said:
It's more complicated than you make out, apparently they had no companies lined up to buy the batteries they were going to produced ,
This. IIRC they sent some prototype batteries to potential customers for testing about four months ago. There's a long way between "here's a possible product, do you want the first real ones in three years" and "yes here's an order to supply my entire EV production which is an existential make-or-break issue for my entire company".TDK-C60 said:
Terrible shame. They were refused £30M by this levelling up government. Lady Mone (alledgely) embezelled more than that.
I recall this was hailed as a post-brexit success / opportunity by one of the usual brexiters, what is the excuse this time?
Brexit has given our government less money to support these opportunities to invest and create jobs - and the current "brexit government" could not care less.
Meanwhile 35 battery plants planned or under construction in the EU.
£30m barely feathers a nest never mind build a £2bn factory.I recall this was hailed as a post-brexit success / opportunity by one of the usual brexiters, what is the excuse this time?
Brexit has given our government less money to support these opportunities to invest and create jobs - and the current "brexit government" could not care less.
Meanwhile 35 battery plants planned or under construction in the EU.
TDK-C60 said:
...
I don’t see much effort or long term vision. £30m is buttons if this could have been a genuine rung on the ladder. The UK doesn’t have a great track record for investment, but not everything succeeds - there is always risk. Did they give up too soon on this? Maybe.
I imagine they'd be damned either way...if the factory then flopped within sort order, there'd be cries of cronyism and money being wasted when poor people are dying in the cold.I don’t see much effort or long term vision. £30m is buttons if this could have been a genuine rung on the ladder. The UK doesn’t have a great track record for investment, but not everything succeeds - there is always risk. Did they give up too soon on this? Maybe.
Feels like a shame to me. If they had prototypes out in the wild, then from afar supporting a bit longer might have been a good idea. But didn't the govt have what seemed like sensible strings attached to the further investment?
The even bigger shame to this is what impact it might have on further investment in higher tech areas...
PRTVR said:
I just personally don't see the market they are aiming for, most car manufacturers are based in Europe have or are building battery factories, Nissan has their supplier in Sunderland, why will anyone need their production if it doesn't give them an advantage over their present suppliers.
Were they only looking at automotive? I imagine there are plenty of other applications that could preset opportunity.Haven't looked at what their business plan was. But this sort of tech area feels like what the UK should be looking at IMO (and yes, maybe solid state will move things on...but look at that too
).It’s the opposite of what most of the thread is driving at.
BV HAD plenty of contracts and pre-orders. They sold the hell out of their “product” to all and sundry. Everyone lapped it up.
The trouble was they had no product, it was vapourware. That combined with their shock at finding out the current HORRENDOUSLY terrible lead times on EEE items, not to mention the cell supply issue - well, it went splat.
Once significant customers of theirs realised it was vapourware on offer the relationships went very sour very quickly.
Contrary to perceptions as well, the UK is actually v well placed in the battery world, you just haven’t heard of the players. Now, that alone annoys the hell out of me. There are some very valid arguments around this and some incredibly stuck in the mud ppl involved. Finally real forward motion is beginning to happen though, but it’s taken a LOT of kicking behind the scenes to get it there.
BV HAD plenty of contracts and pre-orders. They sold the hell out of their “product” to all and sundry. Everyone lapped it up.
The trouble was they had no product, it was vapourware. That combined with their shock at finding out the current HORRENDOUSLY terrible lead times on EEE items, not to mention the cell supply issue - well, it went splat.
Once significant customers of theirs realised it was vapourware on offer the relationships went very sour very quickly.
Contrary to perceptions as well, the UK is actually v well placed in the battery world, you just haven’t heard of the players. Now, that alone annoys the hell out of me. There are some very valid arguments around this and some incredibly stuck in the mud ppl involved. Finally real forward motion is beginning to happen though, but it’s taken a LOT of kicking behind the scenes to get it there.
Bizarre that anybody would link this to a reprieve of the ICE market, that ship has sailed a while back. This is a reflection on the UK's capability to compete in the battery market, nothing to do with ICE cars. There are a bunch of other countries happy to send batteries or EVs here if we cannot do it.
DeejRC said:
It’s the opposite of what most of the thread is driving at.
BV HAD plenty of contracts and pre-orders. They sold the hell out of their “product” to all and sundry. Everyone lapped it up.
The trouble was they had no product, it was vapourware. That combined with their shock at finding out the current HORRENDOUSLY terrible lead times on EEE items, not to mention the cell supply issue - well, it went splat.
Mmmm, agree. I started pitching in 2020 to provide consulting services to the possible IPO. When the £1bn factory got nowhere fast, therefore no revenue forecastable and certainly not profits, I dialled back the amount of reachout. BV HAD plenty of contracts and pre-orders. They sold the hell out of their “product” to all and sundry. Everyone lapped it up.
The trouble was they had no product, it was vapourware. That combined with their shock at finding out the current HORRENDOUSLY terrible lead times on EEE items, not to mention the cell supply issue - well, it went splat.
pghstochaj said:
Bizarre that anybody would link this to a reprieve of the ICE market, that ship has sailed a while back. This is a reflection on the UK's capability to compete in the battery market, nothing to do with ICE cars. There are a bunch of other countries happy to send batteries or EVs here if we cannot do it.
Yes, no way is this a reprieve. Euro 7 will see to that as its been written in such a way (with some pig headed decisions) that BEV will look like the "easy way out".Not that BEV gets a free pass. They will be subject to tyre and brake emissions and also battery health monitoring; they're going to make it regulation that the state of health should hold up really well over 10 years. Which is a good thing IMO.
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