Society. Now that help never comes

[skwdenyer]

Remembering Die Hard 4 (not a great movie) & the scene in which it is asked:





That was meant to scare. To be a thought that would be scary.

And yet here we are:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63948640

89 year old with a broken hip. Granddaughter dials 999. Call handler said they were unable to send anyone, there wasn't any help to send, and that she'd have to find a way of getting him to hospital herself; advised her to call the out-of-hours GP; then said she had to go to deal with other calls.

So 89 year old is tied to a plank, put in the back of a family member’s van & taken to hospital.

This is it. We’re there. In an emergency, call, and no help will come.

It is staggering to think how bad things have become in such a short period of time. This is the epitome of service erosion. We’ve lost 25k NHS beds in a decade; ambulance staff are leaving in droves; A&E waits can hit 12 hours with ease.

That’s just the NHS. The Police no longer come out to crimes in progress. At least the Fire Services seem to be working - for now.

But this is how society as we know it starts to fail. If help is no longer available, soon people start taking matters into their own hands - criminality on one side, vigilantism on another, and look out for startup private ambulance services to fill in some gaps - if you can pay.

How did we let it get this bad? How did we become so complacent? Why isn’t there rioting in the streets?

[Gecko1978]

skwdenyer said:

Remembering Die Hard 4 (not a great movie) & the scene in which it is asked:





That was meant to scare. To be a thought that would be scary.

And yet here we are:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63948640

89 year old with a broken hip. Granddaughter dials 999. Call handler said they were unable to send anyone, there wasn't any help to send, and that she'd have to find a way of getting him to hospital herself; advised her to call the out-of-hours GP; then said she had to go to deal with other calls.

So 89 year old is tied to a plank, put in the back of a family member’s van & taken to hospital.

This is it. We’re there. In an emergency, call, and no help will come.

It is staggering to think how bad things have become in such a short period of time. This is the epitome of service erosion. We’ve lost 25k NHS beds in a decade; ambulance staff are leaving in droves; A&E waits can hit 12 hours with ease.

That’s just the NHS. The Police no longer come out to crimes in progress. At least the Fire Services seem to be working - for now.

But this is how society as we know it starts to fail. If help is no longer available, soon people start taking matters into their own hands - criminality on one side, vigilantism on another, and look out for startup private ambulance services to fill in some gaps - if you can pay.

How did we let it get this bad? How did we become so complacent? Why isn’t there rioting in the streets?

We.allowed governments to convince us that high tax and benefits would make a better society when in fact they kept the poor dependant the middle enslaved in paye jobs and the rich to laugh at us while getting richer off the back of covid hey lady mone

[pork911]

All can be fixed if we vote to take back control.

[Gecko1978]

pork911 said:

All can be fixed if we vote to take back control.

Who or what vote is that lol.

[GliderRider]

The internal market in the NHS and other state run bodies must shoulder a lot of the blame.
Budget holders have been allowed to treat their 'problems' in isolation, ignoring the knock-on effect that their decisions have on their 'customers' and the country in general. For example:

• Large centralised hospitals force users to travel further and take more time off work to attend appointments.

• Ambulances are treated as an extension of A&E once they arrive, instead of getting the patient out and into a mini Nightingale A&E hospital in the car park if needs be, so the ambulance can go and deal with the next patient.

• Patients are required to wait for a doctor to give them clearance to leave after treatment and recuperation. One can easily wait a whole day simply for a doctor to give the nod to go, thus clogging up a valuable bed space for which incoming patients are waiting.

• £2.5 billion a year is spent on medical negligence claims. Many of these are for easily avoidable 'accidents' which a bit of forethought would prevent. People have the wrong limb amputated, or organ removed, and in my friend's case, a left artificial knee fitted in her right knee, which she is now told can't be put right. Confirming with the patient what the operation is and writing this on their chest with a magic marker, or having which side a knee joint goes laser etched on the casting aren't difficult. That £2.5 billion could have been getting spent on something constructive instead of lining lawyers' pockets and compensating victims.

• Accident and Emergency departments are clogged up with large numbers of people who could and should really be seen and treated at their local surgery. Surgeries will only offer appointments days or even weeks ahead these days, so that isn't happening.

Edited by GliderRider on Tuesday 13th December 02:06

[anonymous-user]

skwdenyer said:

How did we let it get this bad?

13 successive years of Tory governments so inept they can't often can't even maintain a stable government for an election cycle, let alone maintain public services. Coupled with their active desire to asset strip and boaster their private sector mates that means what little is spent is often misappropriated and wasted. Oh, and "taking back control" also took out a massive amount of the the desirability of the UK for a lot of skilled migrants that the NHS is highly dependant upon.

skwdenyer said:

How did we become so complacent?

Misguided belief that Britain's prestige, advances and wealth garnered over the industrial revolution and Victorian period would be ever lasting, so much so that many working class people have been fooled into thinking that voting for a party that seemingly proudly celebrate those Victorian-eqse values might be good governance for a declining country in a globalised modern economy. Spoiler warning for the last 13 years:

skwdenyer said:

Why isn’t there rioting in the streets?

Simple divide and conquer; the problem isn't the successive failed inept governments or massive muti billion pound profit making companies with highly creative tax solutions whilst simultaneously paying wages so low they need active governmental subsides why this country, its people and its vital services are suffering.

Of course not, Its those immigrants risking life and limb to come here in homemade boats to work for £3 quid an hour, lets forcibly deport them, sort us right out that will...

Oh no wait, its actually those lazy feckers who don't want to work and claim JSA. That's it, all those people sitting on their arse getting the maximum of 77 WHOLE pounds per week should really be out working in supermarkets, retail outlet chains and other exploitive businesses so the private shareholders can make a few extra more hundreds million profit while sitting on their CLEARLY far superior and more wealthy arses this quarter. Job done.

No actually, I heard that this weekend the problem is actually going to be the bombshell trans people exist and they might, GASP, be asking for rights, respect and acknowledgement

Hang on, its actually the SNP wanting independence.

or maybe its...?

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 13th December 03:20

[230TE]

skwdenyer said:

How did we let it get this bad? How did we become so complacent? Why isn’t there rioting in the streets?

In a post on another thread you asked "where did all the money go"? It's the question everyone should be asking. People are paying taxes, businesses are paying taxes, the Govt is borrowing containerloads of money every day, the money printing machine has been worked so hard it is worn out, and yet there is still no money for stuff that the country was able to do in the 1970s when we were supposedly on the bones of our arse as a nation. Where did all the money go, and where is it still going?

[SteveStrange]

230TE said:

In a post on another thread you asked "where did all the money go"?

Furlough, when people couldn't be arsed to work whilst wearing a mask.

[loafer123]

pork911 said:

All can be fixed if we vote to take back control.

This is in Wales, with a Labour devolved administration with responsibility for health.

In that context, what taking back of control are you envisaging?

[mattyprice4004]

MrBogSmith said:

It's ok, we can use the £350 million per week we send the EU we can use for the NHS

That big red bus must be due soon…

[mattyprice4004]

pork911 said:

All can be fixed if we vote to take back control.

We apparently did just that with Brexit, which was unfortunately just a massive lie (no one saw that coming!)

[FredericRobinson]

230TE said:

Where did all the money go, and where is it still going?

Michelle Mone

[Electro1980]

WorldBoss said:

skwdenyer said:

How did we let it get this bad?

13 successive years of Tory governments so inept they can't often can't even maintain a stable government for an election cycle, let alone maintain public services. Coupled with their active desire to asset strip and boaster their private sector mates that means what little is spent is often misappropriated and wasted. Oh, and "taking back control" also took out a massive amount of the the desirability of the UK for a lot of skilled migrants that the NHS is highly dependant upon.

skwdenyer said:

How did we become so complacent?

Misguided belief that Britain's prestige, advances and wealth garnered over the industrial revolution and Victorian period would be ever lasting, so much so that many working class people have been fooled into thinking that voting for a party that seemingly proudly celebrate those Victorian-eqse values might be good governance for a declining country in a globalised modern economy. Spoiler warning for the last 13 years:

skwdenyer said:

Why isn’t there rioting in the streets?

Simple divide and conquer; the problem isn't the successive failed inept governments or massive muti billion pound profit making companies with highly creative tax solutions whilst simultaneously paying wages so low they need active governmental subsides why this country, its people and its vital services are suffering.

Of course not, Its those immigrants risking life and limb to come here in homemade boats to work for £3 quid an hour, lets forcibly deport them, sort us right out that will...

Oh no wait, its actually those lazy feckers who don't want to work and claim JSA. That's it, all those people sitting on their arse getting the maximum of 77 WHOLE pounds per week should really be out working in supermarkets, retail outlet chains and other exploitive businesses so the private shareholders can make a few extra more hundreds million profit while sitting on their CLEARLY far superior and more wealthy arses this quarter. Job done.

No actually, I heard that this weekend the problem is actually going to be the bombshell trans people exist and they might, GASP, be asking for rights, respect and acknowledgement

Hang on, its actually the SNP wanting independence.

or maybe its...?

Edited by WorldBoss on Tuesday 13th December 03:20

[Rivenink]

GliderRider said:

The internal market in the NHS and other state run bodies must shoulder a lot of the blame.
Budget holders have been allowed to treat their 'problems' in isolation, ignoring the knock-on effect that their decisions have on their 'customers' and the country in general. For example:

• Large centralised hospitals force users to travel further and take more time off work to attend appointments.

• Ambulances are treated as an extension of A&E once they arrive, instead of getting the patient out and into a mini Nightingale A&E hospital in the car park if needs be, so the ambulance can go and deal with the next patient.

• Patients are required to wait for a doctor to give them clearance to leave after treatment and recuperation. One can easily wait a whole day simply for a doctor to give the nod to go, thus clogging up a valuable bed space for which incoming patients are waiting.

• £2.5 billion a year is spent on medical negligence claims. Many of these are for easily avoidable 'accidents' which a bit of forethought would prevent. People have the wrong limb amputated, or organ removed, and in my friend's case, a left artificial knee fitted in her right knee, which she is now told can't be put right. Confirming with the patient what the operation is and writing this on their chest with a magic marker, or having which side a knee joint goes laser etched on the casting aren't difficult. That £2.5 billion could have been getting spent on something constructive instead of lining lawyers' pockets and compensating victims.

• Accident and Emergency departments are clogged up with large numbers of people who could and should really be seen and treated at their local surgery. Surgeries will only offer appointments days or even weeks ahead these days, so that isn't happening.

Edited by GliderRider on Tuesday 13th December 02:06

This was by design.

Step1. Make the NHS dysfunctional.

Step 2. Promote privatisation as the cure to the dysfunction.

Step 3. Profit while anyone who can't afford healthcare suffers and dies.

[spikyone]

GliderRider said:

having which side a knee joint goes laser etched on the casting aren't difficult.

1. It will absolutely have been marked on the implant
2. Implants are neither manufactured nor regulated by the NHS

I sympathise with your friend but there was clearly a human error at some point; perhaps the wrong implant was put in the packaging (which is also labelled with the relevant side) and the surgical team didn't double-check the markings - though the side is generally obvious from a knee implant's shape. I don't think you can blame it on wider maladies in the NHS or society. Errors can happen in any business or industry.

[LivLL]

skwdenyer said:

Remembering Die Hard 4 (not a great movie) & the scene in which it is asked:





That was meant to scare. To be a thought that would be scary.

And yet here we are:

Just for clarity it’s 999 or 112 in the U.K. for Emergencies (ie. threat to life)

[Electro1980]

SteveStrange said:

230TE said:

In a post on another thread you asked "where did all the money go"?

Furlough, when people couldn't be arsed to work whilst wearing a mask.

Yes, of course, it was that people “ couldn't be arsed”. That’s why furlough existed…

[Countdown]

Gecko1978 said:

We.allowed governments to convince us that high tax and benefits would make a better society when in fact they kept the poor dependant the middle enslaved in paye jobs and the rich to laugh at us while getting richer off the back of covid hey lady mone

It would be good to compare ourselves with countries that have higher tax rates and lower tax rates to see which provide more/better Public Services for less money.

[Wills2]

It was inevitable, once you ask a simple question to a complex issue and allow knaves to high jack the political agenda and run the country, this is the outcome, single issue governments always end this way.

6 years later here we are, took longer than expected as CV19 masked the realities and scope of the lies and the complete and utter lack of a plan but we got there in the end.

We have the society we deserve, after all over 17 million of you voted for it.

[eccles]

Gecko1978 said:

We.allowed governments to convince us that high tax and benefits would make a better society when in fact they kept the poor dependant the middle enslaved in paye jobs and the rich to laugh at us while getting richer off the back of covid hey lady mone

And breathe!!!! Punctuation man!