10% of young people never intend to start work
Discussion
Rather damning if true!
https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1179/...
https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1179/...
Edited by Ari on Thursday 8th December 09:37
Subscription-only link, this one seems to be it though:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/07/nearly...
It would be interesting to see how it might have compared to the past, it doesn't seem a huge figure if you take unrealistic expectations into account.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/07/nearly...
It would be interesting to see how it might have compared to the past, it doesn't seem a huge figure if you take unrealistic expectations into account.
Gareth79 said:
Subscription-only link, this one seems to be it though:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/07/nearly...
It would be interesting to see how it might have compared to the past, it doesn't seem a huge figure if you take unrealistic expectations into account.
During the 1980’s it was 1 in 20. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/07/nearly...
It would be interesting to see how it might have compared to the past, it doesn't seem a huge figure if you take unrealistic expectations into account.
My brother in law is one of those who fell into this category, after leaving school, after a couple of menial jobs (packing in warehouse, drivers mate for delivering furniture etc), he's decided to become a "Road Man", to use modern slang... out and about flogging the Class B on a scooter, as there's more money in it than a regular job.
Sad thing is, all the minimum wage jobs are so badly paid, they would rather sit on Universal Credit (if you blag correctly, you're made for life) than deal with apprenticeships, or whatever the equivalent of Youth Training Scheme (YTS) pays out today...
Sad thing is, all the minimum wage jobs are so badly paid, they would rather sit on Universal Credit (if you blag correctly, you're made for life) than deal with apprenticeships, or whatever the equivalent of Youth Training Scheme (YTS) pays out today...
CourtAgain said:
My brother in law is one of those who fell into this category, after leaving school, after a couple of menial jobs (packing in warehouse, drivers mate for delivering furniture etc), he's decided to become a "Road Man", to use modern slang... out and about flogging the Class B on a scooter, as there's more money in it than a regular job.
Sad thing is, all the minimum wage jobs are so badly paid, they would rather sit on Universal Credit (if you blag correctly, you're made for life) than deal with apprenticeships, or whatever the equivalent of Youth Training Scheme (YTS) pays out today...
Get tough on drugs and get rid of UC. Problem solved. Sad thing is, all the minimum wage jobs are so badly paid, they would rather sit on Universal Credit (if you blag correctly, you're made for life) than deal with apprenticeships, or whatever the equivalent of Youth Training Scheme (YTS) pays out today...
A skilled workforce which earns enough to pay tax is what this country needs. Of course there will always be a need for low-paid jobs. In the USA a significant number of ltese are filled by students working their way through college.
There are working age people who's attitude to work and employment means the most useful contribution they can make is to keep away from the workplace and not disrupt the ones who do want to work. The downside being that each of the workers has the additional tax burden of paying the benefits of the ones who don't.
Maybe some sort of non-military national service is required to untie teenagers from their mother's apron strings, show them life away from the sink estates in which some live, and instill a sense of responsibility and a work ethic? An additional benefit is that a compulsory system would result in teenagers meeting others from all backgrounds. This would give them an appreciation of the lives lived by others, instead of the current stratification, as evidenced by our Prime Minister's statement in 2001, "‘I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper class, I have friends who are working class… well, not working class."
There are working age people who's attitude to work and employment means the most useful contribution they can make is to keep away from the workplace and not disrupt the ones who do want to work. The downside being that each of the workers has the additional tax burden of paying the benefits of the ones who don't.
Maybe some sort of non-military national service is required to untie teenagers from their mother's apron strings, show them life away from the sink estates in which some live, and instill a sense of responsibility and a work ethic? An additional benefit is that a compulsory system would result in teenagers meeting others from all backgrounds. This would give them an appreciation of the lives lived by others, instead of the current stratification, as evidenced by our Prime Minister's statement in 2001, "‘I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper class, I have friends who are working class… well, not working class."
GliderRider said:
A skilled workforce which earns enough to pay tax is what this country needs. Of course there will always be a need for low-paid jobs. In the USA a significant number of ltese are filled by students working their way through college.
There are working age people who's attitude to work and employment means the most useful contribution they can make is to keep away from the workplace and not disrupt the ones who do want to work. The downside being that each of the workers has the additional tax burden of paying the benefits of the ones who don't.
Maybe some sort of non-military national service is required to untie teenagers from their mother's apron strings, show them life away from the sink estates in which some live, and instill a sense of responsibility and a work ethic? An additional benefit is that a compulsory system would result in teenagers meeting others from all backgrounds. This would give them an appreciation of the lives lived by others, instead of the current stratification, as evidenced by our Prime Minister's statement in 2001, "‘I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper class, I have friends who are working class… well, not working class."
That’s a rather snobby attitude. Plenty of youngsters from ‘sink estates’ prepared to get on with it and plenty from mollycoddled middle class backgrounds afraid of hard work or unwilling to take jobs that they consider beneath them. There are working age people who's attitude to work and employment means the most useful contribution they can make is to keep away from the workplace and not disrupt the ones who do want to work. The downside being that each of the workers has the additional tax burden of paying the benefits of the ones who don't.
Maybe some sort of non-military national service is required to untie teenagers from their mother's apron strings, show them life away from the sink estates in which some live, and instill a sense of responsibility and a work ethic? An additional benefit is that a compulsory system would result in teenagers meeting others from all backgrounds. This would give them an appreciation of the lives lived by others, instead of the current stratification, as evidenced by our Prime Minister's statement in 2001, "‘I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper class, I have friends who are working class… well, not working class."
Ari said:
That’s a rather snobby attitude. Plenty of youngsters from ‘sink estates’ prepared to get on with it and plenty from mollycoddled middle class backgrounds afraid of hard work or unwilling to take jobs that they consider beneath them.
I don't dispute that the workshy come from all backgrounds. I knew someone from a very privileged background who considered that because his brother in law had a well-paid job and paid a lot of tax, it somehow meant that he was more entitled to the benefits he received for not working. If your parents and grandparents have only ever lived on benefits it does however make it harder to see a way out, particularly if you only ever get negativity at home about working and a desire to succeed.
troika said:
CourtAgain said:
My brother in law is one of those who fell into this category, after leaving school, after a couple of menial jobs (packing in warehouse, drivers mate for delivering furniture etc), he's decided to become a "Road Man", to use modern slang... out and about flogging the Class B on a scooter, as there's more money in it than a regular job.
Sad thing is, all the minimum wage jobs are so badly paid, they would rather sit on Universal Credit (if you blag correctly, you're made for life) than deal with apprenticeships, or whatever the equivalent of Youth Training Scheme (YTS) pays out today...
Get tough on drugs and get rid of UC. Problem solved. Sad thing is, all the minimum wage jobs are so badly paid, they would rather sit on Universal Credit (if you blag correctly, you're made for life) than deal with apprenticeships, or whatever the equivalent of Youth Training Scheme (YTS) pays out today...
GliderRider said:
Ari said:
That’s a rather snobby attitude. Plenty of youngsters from ‘sink estates’ prepared to get on with it and plenty from mollycoddled middle class backgrounds afraid of hard work or unwilling to take jobs that they consider beneath them.
I don't dispute that the workshy come from all backgrounds. I knew someone from a very privileged background who considered that because his brother in law had a well-paid job and paid a lot of tax, it somehow meant that he was more entitled to the benefits he received for not working. If your parents and grandparents have only ever lived on benefits it does however make it harder to see a way out, particularly if you only ever get negativity at home about working and a desire to succeed.
But yes, I know of a couple of, I was going to say kids but they're in their early twenties, who have basically taken to their bedrooms in their parent's homes, both very middle class, very comfortable upbringings. They've got laptops and the Internet, they know their parents are not going to throw them out on the street or let them starve, they have no social life other than online, they have no need for money (other than to pay for Internet on their phones if the home wifi is switched off - accumulated years of birthday and Christmas present money from relatives mean there are a couple of thousand in the bank, plenty enough to keep that going). General pattern seems to be game all night, sleep till midday.
The easy answer is, of course, blame the parents, and there's definitely something in that. But having got to this point, short of manhandling them out of the door or starving them to death (and there's always JustEat), what do they do?
The bit I don't understand is, how these kids grow up not wanting anything? When I was 15, all I, and everyone I knew, talked about, was getting out of school and getting a job and some money of our own, getting a girlfriend, a car (and driving licence) and getting the hell out of home!
Ari said:
....
The easy answer is, of course, blame the parents, and there's definitely something in that. But having got to this point, short of manhandling them out of the door or starving them to death (and there's always JustEat), what do they do?
The bit I don't understand is, how these kids grow up not wanting anything? When I was 15, all I, and everyone I knew, talked about, was getting out of school and getting a job and some money of our own, getting a girlfriend, a car (and driving licence) and getting the hell out of home!
"...there's definitely something in that..."? It's pretty much everything to do with it!The easy answer is, of course, blame the parents, and there's definitely something in that. But having got to this point, short of manhandling them out of the door or starving them to death (and there's always JustEat), what do they do?
The bit I don't understand is, how these kids grow up not wanting anything? When I was 15, all I, and everyone I knew, talked about, was getting out of school and getting a job and some money of our own, getting a girlfriend, a car (and driving licence) and getting the hell out of home!
The parents laid this path many years earlier. The kids have grown up not wanting anything because absolutely everything they could want (and more) has been given to them on a plate (clearly, from what you describe, which is admittedly little).
Who else is expected to instill a sense of purpose in kids if not the parents (primarily)? School plays some part in it - inspiring teachers etc. Friends and their families a part too. But it's the job of parents to take the accountability for that.
It's far, far from easy, especially when some of those other influences aren't what you'd want them to be. But head in sand and shrugging shoulders isn't the answer.
On the article, I can imagine 10% of people in the 18-24 age range being unemployed...but the wording of "plan not to work" I found strange.
Ari said:
Rather damning if true!
https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1179/...
So 90% do?https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1179/...
Edited by Ari on Thursday 8th December 09:37
Sounds ok to me.
Ari said:
The bit I don't understand is, how these kids grow up not wanting anything? When I was 15, all I, and everyone I knew, talked about, was getting out of school and getting a job and some money of our own, getting a girlfriend, a car (and driving licence) and getting the hell out of home!
I think partly it has because they see little point in striving and working hard when they probably won't see the rewards - mainly the opportunity to buy a house. A few (working) young couples i know have been saving up for years but the cost of local houses just keeps increasing as quickly as they are saving up, so they don't see that they will ever be able to afford a house/car/holiday etc.I can understand that if you make the goals difficult a lot of people won't bother trying, as they feel they are bound to fail.
boyse7en said:
I think partly it has because they see little point in striving and working hard when they probably won't see the rewards - mainly the opportunity to buy a house. A few (working) young couples i know have been saving up for years but the cost of local houses just keeps increasing as quickly as they are saving up, so they don't see that they will ever be able to afford a house/car/holiday etc.
I can understand that if you make the goals difficult a lot of people won't bother trying, as they feel they are bound to fail.
I'm not sure. It seems deeper than that, it seems that they're simply not interested in engaging with adulthood on any level. No desire for a relationship, no desire to travel, no desire for any independence, no real desire to even leave their bedrooms... I can understand that if you make the goals difficult a lot of people won't bother trying, as they feel they are bound to fail.
Murph7355 said:
"...there's definitely something in that..."? It's pretty much everything to do with it!
The parents laid this path many years earlier. The kids have grown up not wanting anything because absolutely everything they could want (and more) has been given to them on a plate (clearly, from what you describe, which is admittedly little).
Who else is expected to instill a sense of purpose in kids if not the parents (primarily)? School plays some part in it - inspiring teachers etc. Friends and their families a part too. But it's the job of parents to take the accountability for that.
It's far, far from easy, especially when some of those other influences aren't what you'd want them to be. But head in sand and shrugging shoulders isn't the answer.
On the article, I can imagine 10% of people in the 18-24 age range being unemployed...but the wording of "plan not to work" I found strange.
I don't disagree with you, but in the context of the original article, whoever is to blame, I find it interesting that even though I know very few people in their 20s (mostly friend's kids, or friends of our kids), I still know two who are like this. The parents laid this path many years earlier. The kids have grown up not wanting anything because absolutely everything they could want (and more) has been given to them on a plate (clearly, from what you describe, which is admittedly little).
Who else is expected to instill a sense of purpose in kids if not the parents (primarily)? School plays some part in it - inspiring teachers etc. Friends and their families a part too. But it's the job of parents to take the accountability for that.
It's far, far from easy, especially when some of those other influences aren't what you'd want them to be. But head in sand and shrugging shoulders isn't the answer.
On the article, I can imagine 10% of people in the 18-24 age range being unemployed...but the wording of "plan not to work" I found strange.
I know of a few more less extreme examples (have jobs but still living with parents - fine, blame cost of living maybe - and seem to have little interest in 'adulting' (relationships, travel, driving, independence generally).
Makes me wonder how many there are throughout the UK.
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