Too Stupid To Be A Doctor?

[irc]

An Australian Doctor trying to stop his son vaping is giving him two fags a day to smoke instead.

"Jason has resorted to giving his son two cigarettes a day to replace the vape. He knows tobacco is harmful and comes with significant health consequences, but is facing a quandary that is common to many health practitioners and parents when young people come to them and say they are addicted to vaping."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/de...

I thought the science was quite clear, vaping while not harm free is far less damaging than smoking.

"Vaping is not completely risk-free, but it poses a small fraction of the risk of smoking cigarettes. The long-term risks of vaping are not yet clear."

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-...

[KAgantua]

Good for him

Get em started on proper fags early

[Plymo]

The bit about not being sure about the effects of vaping is understandable - after all I doubt there are many people that have been vaping for more than 10 years (and those would likely be ex-smokers) so if it did cause cancer or lung problems then it may well not become apparent yet.

But it's still safer than smoking!

[uk66fastback]

I always thought people trying to give up the fags went to vaping and then wound down from that and stopped completely.

Now it seems people who have never smoked take up vaping, ffs.

[irc]

uk66fastback said:

I always thought people trying to give up the fags went to vaping and then wound down from that and stopped completely.

Now it seems people who have never smoked take up vaping, ffs.

True. But most vapers are smokers or former smokers.

"Of the 4.3 million current vapers, around 2.4 million are ex-smokers, 1.5 million are current smokers and
350,000 are never smokers. "

https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Use-of-e-cigarettes-vap...

Of that 350'000 a good number might have started smoking instead of vaping if vaping wasn't a choice. Young people have always experimented. Ideally don't smoke or vape of course.

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

Maybe he doesn't want his son to look like a chav? However, smoking is only marginally better.

[SWoll]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Maybe he doesn't want his son to look like a chav? However, smoking is only marginally better.

Becaus smoking cigarettes is such a classy look?

And care to evidence that claim as the NHS doesn't agree with you.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-...

NHS said:

Also known as vapes or e-cigs, they're far less harmful than cigarettes, and can help you quit smoking for good.

[Dr Jekyll]

SWoll said:

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Maybe he doesn't want his son to look like a chav? However, smoking is only marginally better.

Becaus smoking cigarettes is such a classy look?

And care to evidence that claim as the NHS doesn't agree with you.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-...

NHS said:

Also known as vapes or e-cigs, they're far less harmful than cigarettes, and can help you quit smoking for good.

I think Abdul meant only marginally less chav looking.

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

Dr Jekyll said:

SWoll said:

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Maybe he doesn't want his son to look like a chav? However, smoking is only marginally better.

Becaus smoking cigarettes is such a classy look?

And care to evidence that claim as the NHS doesn't agree with you.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-...

NHS said:

Also known as vapes or e-cigs, they're far less harmful than cigarettes, and can help you quit smoking for good.

I think Abdul meant only marginally less chav looking.

Indeed.

[Mastodon2]

uk66fastback said:

I always thought people trying to give up the fags went to vaping and then wound down from that and stopped completely.

Many vapers proclaim to intend to do just that, only they never get round to stopping the vape. The number of people I see who can't stop sucking on these things is ridiculous, they're like dummies for adults.

[smn159]

[captain.scarlet]

uk66fastback said:

I always thought people trying to give up the fags went to vaping and then wound down from that and stopped completely.

Now it seems people who have never smoked take up vaping, ffs.

The thing is, people of all ages do it and often casually vape indoors.

Or (rant alert) blast out plumes of sickly artificial fruity sweetness for others to breathe in whilst walking nearby, or out of a car window whilst being sat at the traffic lights. It's the 'sights and smells' aspect there.

And that's if they're not sat in the back seat of their mate's car, armed with a balloon and a whipping cream canister. When you hear the reverse farting sound of the gas being loaded into the balloon, you've a definite badboy mating call there.

That adds the 'sound' aspect to the centre of any major city you happen to be in.

[Not-The-Messiah]

Next one will be
Son "Dad I'm addicted to sugar"
Dad "don't worry son here's some cocaine to help you off the sugar"

The guy should not be a doctor to be honest I would be worried leaving him alone flipping burgers.

[Gareth79]

Normally the sensible solution would be for him to buy his son a refillable vaping kit and a set of liquids in descending order of nicotine content and helping him through weaning down/off it, however it's illegal to sell nictotine vaping products in Australia without the person having a prescription, and they are strictly only available to over 18s.

Therefore for the doctor the choice is to either buy his son illegally imported vaping products (and try and find some with a reliable nicotine content), or give his son cigarettes (which seems to be the stupid option, given that it's illegal, and 2 a day is probably not enough to replace the nicotine he needs/wants).

[dandarez]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Dr Jekyll said:

SWoll said:

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Maybe he doesn't want his son to look like a chav? However, smoking is only marginally better.

Becaus smoking cigarettes is such a classy look?

And care to evidence that claim as the NHS doesn't agree with you.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-...

NHS said:

Also known as vapes or e-cigs, they're far less harmful than cigarettes, and can help you quit smoking for good.

I think Abdul meant only marginally less chav looking.

Indeed.

I got it too Abdul.

I love it when people 'quote the NHS'.
SWoll, l do hope you realise that the NHS once advocated 'alcohol', yep, alcohol, as a 'health benefit'?

I know, because in 1967 when I picked my dad up from hospital after his stay (I'd driven mum there in dad's car) I had dad's 'freebie' from the hospital. They (NHS) would also give you this same 'freebie' if you gave blood.

It had been such great news for the company in question whose product it was, that it gifted them 'FREE' (today, it's almost unbelievable) advertising -with a slogan so good that lasted for almost 40 years! And it hadn't cost the company in question a single penny! No advertising agency fees, nothing, zilch!!

Are you there yet, or do I have to spell it out?

The 'freebie' was a bottle of GUINNESS.
The simple advertising slogan courtesy of the NHS was 'Guinness is Good for You!'

I had dad's 'free' bottle, like so very many post-op patients did back then, courtesy of the NHS. I had the bottle simply because dad was a 'bitter' man (beer! he disliked Guinness or stout).
And yes, of course I drank it when I got back home.
I also recall vividly as we left dad being helped by one doc outside as we got into the car, him stubbing his fag out (the doc!).

Stuff changes over the years.

Yes, the NHS tells you 'Vaping is less harmful than smoking.'
But as anyone realises it's far too soon to know. I know some teens who are absolutely 'hooked' on vapes, all under age but the important point the NHS misses, they are not changing from having smoked, I don't think any one of them would have smoked. It's simply an 'in thing' for them.
Nobody really knows the dangers long term. Nobody. Only time will tell.

Today the NHS tells you 'sugar' is bad for you, and 'saturated fat' is bad for you.
The NHS today advocates 'Artificial Sweeteners' over sugar. They tell you there is no evidence that 'sweeteners' like aspartame etc, do you any harm. They would say that wouldn't they?

I try my very best to avoid any artificial sweeteners but it's bloody difficult, they're put in so much now from soft drinks to chewing gum. Think about it, why the fk would you put something 'artificial' down your gullet over something 'natural' like real unrefined sugar? Give me the latter any day.

I can imagine it in 20 years time... bit like 'alcohol'.
'Why the heck did the NHS advocate that people consumed something 'artificial' over something 'natural' - were they mad?'

[Oliver Hardy]

Plymo said:

The bit about not being sure about the effects of vaping is understandable - after all I doubt there are many people that have been vaping for more than 10 years (and those would likely be ex-smokers) so if it did cause cancer or lung problems then it may well not become apparent yet.

But it's still safer than smoking!

But we do know, the harm from smoking cigarettes is from the smoke, when you vape their is no smoke just vapour

[irc]

dandarez said:

I got it too Abdul.

I love it when people 'quote the NHS'.
SWoll, l do hope you realise that the NHS once advocated 'alcohol', yep, alcohol, as a 'health benefit'?

I know, because in 1967 when I picked my dad up from hospital after his stay (I'd driven mum there in dad's car) I had dad's 'freebie' from the hospital. They (NHS) would also give you this same 'freebie' if you gave blood.

It had been such great news for the company in question whose product it was, that it gifted them 'FREE' (today, it's almost unbelievable) advertising -with a slogan so good that lasted for almost 40 years! And it hadn't cost the company in question a single penny! No advertising agency fees, nothing, zilch!!

Are you there yet, or do I have to spell it out?

The 'freebie' was a bottle of GUINNESS.
The simple advertising slogan courtesy of the NHS was 'Guinness is Good for You!'

I had dad's 'free' bottle, like so very many post-op patients did back then, courtesy of the NHS. I had the bottle simply because dad was a 'bitter' man (beer! he disliked Guinness or stout).
And yes, of course I drank it when I got back home.
I also recall vividly as we left dad being helped by one doc outside as we got into the car, him stubbing his fag out (the doc!).

Stuff changes over the years.

Yes, the NHS tells you 'Vaping is less harmful than smoking.'
But as anyone realises it's far too soon to know. I know some teens who are absolutely 'hooked' on vapes, all under age but the important point the NHS misses, they are not changing from having smoked, I don't think any one of them would have smoked. It's simply an 'in thing' for them.
Nobody really knows the dangers long term. Nobody. Only time will tell.

Today the NHS tells you 'sugar' is bad for you, and 'saturated fat' is bad for you.
The NHS today advocates 'Artificial Sweeteners' over sugar. They tell you there is no evidence that 'sweeteners' like aspartame etc, do you any harm. They would say that wouldn't they?

I try my very best to avoid any artificial sweeteners but it's bloody difficult, they're put in so much now from soft drinks to chewing gum. Think about it, why the fk would you put something 'artificial' down your gullet over something 'natural' like real unrefined sugar? Give me the latter any day.

I can imagine it in 20 years time... bit like 'alcohol'.
'Why the heck did the NHS advocate that people consumed something 'artificial' over something 'natural' - were they mad?'

Good story. Back to vaping. The Royal College of Surgeons also think vaping is far less dangerous.

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicot...

Want to quote and study showing similar risks?

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Perhaps he is "too stupid to be a doctor," or, just maybe, in however many years of medical training and practice and 14 years of bringing up his own kid he knows something we don't about what is most likely to be effective?

[Dr Jekyll]

dandarez said:

:

I try my very best to avoid any artificial sweeteners but it's bloody difficult, they're put in so much now from soft drinks to chewing gum. Think about it, why the fk would you put something 'artificial' down your gullet over something 'natural' like real unrefined sugar? Give me the latter any day.

I can imagine it in 20 years time... bit like 'alcohol'.
'Why the heck did the NHS advocate that people consumed something 'artificial' over something 'natural' - were they mad?'

Why would something natural be better than something artificial?

[Murph7355]

irc said:

....
"Vaping is not completely risk-free, but it poses a small fraction of the risk of smoking cigarettes. The long-term risks of vaping are not yet clear."

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-...

So the long term risks are not clear but we know (categorically) vaping poses a small fraction of the risk of cigarettes...

From what we know of smoking, you would logically assume the risks will be greater... But there was a time when people didn't think cigarettes were a problem too....

Sucking in large quantities of vapour laced with chemicals doesn't seem like a great idea to me generally. And that's before any gateway issues are studied.

Fortunately my kids think vaping and smoking are weird. Will be trying to preserve those views through their teens...