France legislates car parks to have solar panels

[Biggus thingus]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/09/fran...

I think this is a brilliant idea

Big open spaces will eventually have solar panel canopies above the parking spaces, generating electricity and protecting the car and driver when the weather isn't great

Saw abit of this in Portugal recently, hotels had put solar panels on frames above their parking spaces

It won't solve the energy crisis but it's something i'd welcome in the UK

Divert the resources from covering farmland to covering tarmacked supermarket/shopping centre carparks

Bravo monsieur!!

[normalbloke]

The is happening at the old IBM complex at North Harbour, nr Portsmouth. Owned by Portsmouth council and used as offices for a few major companies. Seems surprisingly forward thinking for them to be fair.

[smifffymoto]

I can’t wait for this to happen.The rain I can handle but the heat in summer is getting too much,this will be fantastic.

[Ian Geary]

My mate lives near Madrid

Their airport parking has row upon row of canopies covering cars (essential due to heat, not so sure about rain)

The UK doesn't have this, so think it would be hard to retrofit.

Whoever has the contract for solar panels will be laughing

[mcdjl]

It would make so much sense to put solar panels on to the roof of every new build building. Years back the small and large factory units had areas of sloped and vertical roofs do there could be large sky lights, solar panels would be the obvious modern alternative. It every new house had a connection point for a battery as well it would give owners the option to upgrade in the future. On the scale of the cost of a new house the extra would be minimal.

[chrisga]

Brilliant news. I've been saying that we should cover open spaces like car parks with solar before we convert agriculture to solar for years. We need to be energy self sufficient but not at the expense of food production! When all car parks and warehouse type buildings are covered then maybe look at whatever fields haven't been used for housing. Oh and while we are at it every new build should have solar on the roof.

[Tankrizzo]

normalbloke said:

The is happening at the old IBM complex at North Harbour, nr Portsmouth. Owned by Portsmouth council and used as offices for a few major companies. Seems surprisingly forward thinking for them to be fair.

That's my workplace. The plans are really quite something, the entire car park will be covered in them with space to park underneath.

[Timothy Bucktu]

Nice idea which will no doubt please many 'green' investors...but we are still yet to develop a storage solution for any excess angry pixies to be released back to the grid over night.
So you still need something for when everyone goes home.
Solar and battery manufacturing is of course a very energy intensive industry. The mining for raw materials is of course very environmentally damaging.
Call me cynical, but all I'm saying is, read beyond the headline and think about it for a minute. Solar (and wind energy) is no substitute for a robust power grid which you still need on standby for cloudy calm days. There is no getting away from this.
What we really need are new modern nuclear power plants. They are arguably the 'greenest' technology we have right now, but there is no incentive to invest in them, and no juicy subsidies of course.

In summary: Kind of useful. Many flaws. Green subsidies. Pots of money. Be cynical. Critical thinking needed.

[bristolracer]

I bet there's a few councils who love to delete the parking and kill 2 birds with one stone!

[steveo3002]

council's mate get the contract , milks the tax payer dry fitting sub standard rubbish that never works properly , then they get paid again to repair it or take it down

[Bathroom_Security]

steveo3002 said:

council's mate get the contract , milks the tax payer dry fitting sub standard rubbish that never works properly , then they get paid again to repair it or take it down

Welcome to Britain!

[PositronicRay]

Timothy Bucktu said:

Nice idea which will no doubt please many 'green' investors...but we are still yet to develop a storage solution for any excess angry pixies to be released back to the grid over night.
So you still need something for when everyone goes home.
Solar and battery manufacturing is of course a very energy intensive industry. The mining for raw materials is of course very environmentally damaging.
Call me cynical, but all I'm saying is, read beyond the headline and think about it for a minute. Solar (and wind energy) is no substitute for a robust power grid which you still need on standby for cloudy calm days. There is no getting away from this.
What we really need are new modern nuclear power plants. They are arguably the 'greenest' technology we have right now, but there is no incentive to invest in them, and no juicy subsidies of course.

In summary: Kind of useful. Many flaws. Green subsidies. Pots of money. Be cynical. Critical thinking needed.

Like most things there's not a one size fits all. We need diverse solutions, solar panels will play a part, and using carparking sounds ideal.

[dxg]

PositronicRay said:

Timothy Bucktu said:

Nice idea which will no doubt please many 'green' investors...but we are still yet to develop a storage solution for any excess angry pixies to be released back to the grid over night.
So you still need something for when everyone goes home.
Solar and battery manufacturing is of course a very energy intensive industry. The mining for raw materials is of course very environmentally damaging.
Call me cynical, but all I'm saying is, read beyond the headline and think about it for a minute. Solar (and wind energy) is no substitute for a robust power grid which you still need on standby for cloudy calm days. There is no getting away from this.
What we really need are new modern nuclear power plants. They are arguably the 'greenest' technology we have right now, but there is no incentive to invest in them, and no juicy subsidies of course.

In summary: Kind of useful. Many flaws. Green subsidies. Pots of money. Be cynical. Critical thinking needed.

Like most things there's not a one size fits all. We need diverse solutions, solar panels will play a part, and using carparking sounds ideal.

The small modular nuclear reactor programme is well advanced, even though it's the current Hinckley Point C and future Sizewell C that seem to be getting all the mainstream press.

Nothing happening on the gas front, from what I can see.

[alabbasi]

Solar panels have their benefits and costs. The biggest cost to going off the grid is that it raises the price of the grid, yet the grid will remain essential. Maintenance and repair will become much more expensive as people consume less from it.

[rscott]

PositronicRay said:

Timothy Bucktu said:

Nice idea which will no doubt please many 'green' investors...but we are still yet to develop a storage solution for any excess angry pixies to be released back to the grid over night.
So you still need something for when everyone goes home.
Solar and battery manufacturing is of course a very energy intensive industry. The mining for raw materials is of course very environmentally damaging.
Call me cynical, but all I'm saying is, read beyond the headline and think about it for a minute. Solar (and wind energy) is no substitute for a robust power grid which you still need on standby for cloudy calm days. There is no getting away from this.
What we really need are new modern nuclear power plants. They are arguably the 'greenest' technology we have right now, but there is no incentive to invest in them, and no juicy subsidies of course.

In summary: Kind of useful. Many flaws. Green subsidies. Pots of money. Be cynical. Critical thinking needed.

Like most things there's not a one size fits all. We need diverse solutions, solar panels will play a part, and using carparking sounds ideal.

And the car park idea can be implemented within the next 3-5 years (limited only by the supply of solar panels), whereas any new nuclear solution, which we do need, won't be available for probably 10 years.

[skwdenyer]

Timothy Bucktu said:

Nice idea which will no doubt please many 'green' investors...but we are still yet to develop a storage solution for any excess angry pixies to be released back to the grid over night.
So you still need something for when everyone goes home.
Solar and battery manufacturing is of course a very energy intensive industry. The mining for raw materials is of course very environmentally damaging.
Call me cynical, but all I'm saying is, read beyond the headline and think about it for a minute. Solar (and wind energy) is no substitute for a robust power grid which you still need on standby for cloudy calm days. There is no getting away from this.
What we really need are new modern nuclear power plants. They are arguably the 'greenest' technology we have right now, but there is no incentive to invest in them, and no juicy subsidies of course.

In summary: Kind of useful. Many flaws. Green subsidies. Pots of money. Be cynical. Critical thinking needed.

If we'd kept on investing in tidal and wave power, we'd be in a much better situation. But we didn't, just as we didn't invest in nuclear.

[Not-The-Messiah]

I would suspect that if you did a few quick calculations of how efficient the panels would be compared to energy costs of building the structures it just won't add up.

Panels on a structure that's already there makes sense. To build them out of more than likely steel structures probably will never add up.
Mining, smelting it then transporting all the steel takes a hell of a lot of energy. With the amount of power you will probably get off it in this country it will take years until it becomes carbon neutral. Never mind the cost of the installation in the first place.

[vonuber]

Not-The-Messiah said:

I would suspect that if you did a few quick calculations of how efficient the panels would be compared to energy costs of building the structures it just won't add up.

Panels on a structure that's already there makes sense. To build them out of more than likely steel structures probably will never add up.
Mining, smelting it then transporting all the steel takes a hell of a lot of energy. With the amount of power you will probably get off it in this country it will take years until it becomes carbon neutral. Never mind the cost of the installation in the first place.

So we should do nothing because of the pay back time? Doesn't that apply to everything?

[Timothy Bucktu]

rscott said:

PositronicRay said:

Timothy Bucktu said:

Nice idea which will no doubt please many 'green' investors...but we are still yet to develop a storage solution for any excess angry pixies to be released back to the grid over night.
So you still need something for when everyone goes home.
Solar and battery manufacturing is of course a very energy intensive industry. The mining for raw materials is of course very environmentally damaging.
Call me cynical, but all I'm saying is, read beyond the headline and think about it for a minute. Solar (and wind energy) is no substitute for a robust power grid which you still need on standby for cloudy calm days. There is no getting away from this.
What we really need are new modern nuclear power plants. They are arguably the 'greenest' technology we have right now, but there is no incentive to invest in them, and no juicy subsidies of course.

In summary: Kind of useful. Many flaws. Green subsidies. Pots of money. Be cynical. Critical thinking needed.

Like most things there's not a one size fits all. We need diverse solutions, solar panels will play a part, and using carparking sounds ideal.

And the car park idea can be implemented within the next 3-5 years (limited only by the supply of solar panels), whereas any new nuclear solution, which we do need, won't be available for probably 10 years.

In that case, it's a great stopgap solution...on sunny days, in summer, during the day

[Gareth79]

alabbasi said:

Solar panels have their benefits and costs. The biggest cost to going off the grid is that it raises the price of the grid, yet the grid will remain essential. Maintenance and repair will become much more expensive as people consume less from it.

True "off-grid" is pretty rare, and impractical in the UK. Most solar installs are grid-tied, basically in parallel with the grid where you use whatever you produce and import wherever needed (and export whatever is 'unused'). You still pay the standing charge that funds the grid itself.