University should be scrapped
Discussion
Maybe we need a radical solution to our future and scrap all universities
Would free up a lot of young people for the workforce
Stop students getting into massive student debt most of which pays for in many cases a worthless degree
Universities becoming a big scam lowering entry standards just so they can screw more and more money out of students
Many students are getting fewer and fewer live lectures and more and more online
People running Universities are grossly over paid
Gear up employers to offer far better apprenticeships with meaningful qualifications after 3 years
Pay young people to learn skills online subject to them working part time
Would free up a lot of young people for the workforce
Stop students getting into massive student debt most of which pays for in many cases a worthless degree
Universities becoming a big scam lowering entry standards just so they can screw more and more money out of students
Many students are getting fewer and fewer live lectures and more and more online
People running Universities are grossly over paid
Gear up employers to offer far better apprenticeships with meaningful qualifications after 3 years
Pay young people to learn skills online subject to them working part time
There's a lot to be said for drastically reducing the number of young folk going to 'Universities' and doing worthless degrees but Tony decided it was not fair if little Jimmy's parents could not also have a photo of him on the sideboard with a scroll in his hand for his media studies or drama degree.
Apprenticeships are the way forward for many but the problem is there are very few vacancies.
In Germany they may have f
ked up on the gas situation but they do value technical apprenticeships as much as graduates.
Apprenticeships are the way forward for many but the problem is there are very few vacancies.
In Germany they may have f
ked up on the gas situation but they do value technical apprenticeships as much as graduates.The Workplace is on on the scam. Even the most brain dead roles require a degree so these kids feel they have no choice.
Simply giving them an aptitude test for the role before the job offer would ensure a better quality of employee.
Imagine Boris or Liz had to do some sort of exam before getting the PM job? Zero chance of it happening or them passing.
Simply giving them an aptitude test for the role before the job offer would ensure a better quality of employee.
Imagine Boris or Liz had to do some sort of exam before getting the PM job? Zero chance of it happening or them passing.
Lotobear said:
There's a lot to be said for drastically reducing the number of young folk going to 'Universities' and doing worthless degrees but Tony decided it was not fair if little Jimmy's parents could not also have a photo of him on the sideboard with a scroll in his hand for his media studies or drama degree.
Apprenticeships are the way forward for many but the problem is there are very few vacancies.
In Germany they may have fked up on the gas situation but they do value technical apprenticeships as much as graduates.
You're blaming Blair for a Major policy.Apprenticeships are the way forward for many but the problem is there are very few vacancies.
In Germany they may have f
ked up on the gas situation but they do value technical apprenticeships as much as graduates.It's pure stupidity to suggest scrapping the university system. It's proven and it works and it provides the necessary skills and education our industry needs to compete globally.
How it is funded is entirely a political issue, and many countries do not burden their university graduates with huge debt. That's not to say I'm against the student debt model, but the level of debt and the interest rates charged have spun out of control.
I also support apprenticeships through to degree level and have great respect for many of my colleagues that have done this. It's a fantastic way through the system generating both experience and avoiding much of the debt of university.
But, apprenticeship wages are dismal. If you're not fortunate to live near one of our high-quality engineering organisations that provide such a career path then there's no way an apprenticeship pay will support you as an independent adult. Nor does it cover much of the cost of travel in these modern times.
We can all laugh about media studies degrees, but social media and online marketing is a multi billion dollar global industry that is part of every person and nearly ever business.
How it is funded is entirely a political issue, and many countries do not burden their university graduates with huge debt. That's not to say I'm against the student debt model, but the level of debt and the interest rates charged have spun out of control.
I also support apprenticeships through to degree level and have great respect for many of my colleagues that have done this. It's a fantastic way through the system generating both experience and avoiding much of the debt of university.
But, apprenticeship wages are dismal. If you're not fortunate to live near one of our high-quality engineering organisations that provide such a career path then there's no way an apprenticeship pay will support you as an independent adult. Nor does it cover much of the cost of travel in these modern times.
We can all laugh about media studies degrees, but social media and online marketing is a multi billion dollar global industry that is part of every person and nearly ever business.
glazbagun said:
You're blaming Blair for a Major policy.
Major converted polytechnics to universities in 1992 - not quite the same as Blair and Adonis (then education secretary) setting target of 50% of 18 year olds should attend university and the influx of M. Mouse courses.Sir Blair and Lord Adonis are now advocating for 60% attendance by 2030 and 70% by 2040.
Edited by FunkyGibbon on Friday 2nd September 18:34
FunkyGibbon said:
Major converted polytechnics to universities in 1992 - not quite the same as Blair and Adonis (then education secretary) setting target of 50% of 18 year olds should attend university and the influx of M. Mouse courses.
Sir Blair and Lord Adonis are now advocating for 60% attendance by 2030 and 70% by 2040.
Because industry is screaming for degree graduates. How else do we fill that skills gap? Even if we pushed more apprenticeships, the end outcome would still be a degree for many.Sir Blair and Lord Adonis are now advocating for 60% attendance by 2030 and 70% by 2040.
Edited by FunkyGibbon on Friday 2nd September 18:34
Are we not going to bother with scientists and engineers any more then? We do quite a bit of quality research too.
Not everybody should go to university and the current model of rinsing 50 percent of kids for many thousands is not the best. Scrap them completely though? Not sure that's a very well thought out plan.
Not everybody should go to university and the current model of rinsing 50 percent of kids for many thousands is not the best. Scrap them completely though? Not sure that's a very well thought out plan.
2 of my 3 lads went to Uni, one did Music Tech, One did Fashion Design, the eldest went to college and did fixing planes, he earns the most currently but they all have jobs sort of in their area.
Part of it is living away with your mates, the whole uni experience, not always just down to qualifications and whatever.
Part of it is living away with your mates, the whole uni experience, not always just down to qualifications and whatever.
Evanivitch said:
Because industry is screaming for degree graduates. How else do we fill that skills gap? Even if we pushed more apprenticeships, the end outcome would still be a degree for many.
I suspect industry is screaming out for people who can read/write/count and be articulate, this should be achievable by most by the ages of 16 or 18. But it is not. So higher ed is often used to hone those skills, not actually any other specific technical skills. Specific technical skills can be honed on the job by apprenticeships and things like HNC/HND.Edited by FunkyGibbon on Friday 2nd September 19:01
What we really need is to figure out how to make people more intelligent and in how to use their intelligence. It honestly amazes me that in the three thousand year history of democracy and republics, no one has ever seriously considered what happens in a society where everyone has enhanced intelligence.
Plato and Socrates asked what if we had a leadership of Philosopher-Kings; consider however, a species of Philosopher-Kings, a Humanity in which their 100IQ is our 150+. Perhaps 200+ once we figure out how to achieve cybernetic enhancements on genetically engineered people, so high that they are beyond what we know as possible to 21st century mankind? Not one or two supermen, but making such enhancements into the base genome of all humanity. What could they achieve?
Education in the form of sitting people down and cramming stuff into brains is ultimately insufficient; theoretically you could do that with a data upload, even if that particular capacity is beyond our present technologies and mind-machine interfaces. But, we need to develop it - imagine the potential of everyone understanding the whole of human knowledge and understanding.
What we need is the capability to remember that information and use it.
If we can improve the mind to such an extent that all someone needs to remember something for the rest of their lives is to see it once, we could have a normal child learning what is university material today by the end of primary school.
Then, you put these child-geniuses in apprenticeships, where they learn experience and application of the theoretical understanding. Finally unleash them on the problems of the day.
What could we do if we could blend the best of all humanity into every child? What worlds would they build?
Plato and Socrates asked what if we had a leadership of Philosopher-Kings; consider however, a species of Philosopher-Kings, a Humanity in which their 100IQ is our 150+. Perhaps 200+ once we figure out how to achieve cybernetic enhancements on genetically engineered people, so high that they are beyond what we know as possible to 21st century mankind? Not one or two supermen, but making such enhancements into the base genome of all humanity. What could they achieve?
Education in the form of sitting people down and cramming stuff into brains is ultimately insufficient; theoretically you could do that with a data upload, even if that particular capacity is beyond our present technologies and mind-machine interfaces. But, we need to develop it - imagine the potential of everyone understanding the whole of human knowledge and understanding.
What we need is the capability to remember that information and use it.
If we can improve the mind to such an extent that all someone needs to remember something for the rest of their lives is to see it once, we could have a normal child learning what is university material today by the end of primary school.
Then, you put these child-geniuses in apprenticeships, where they learn experience and application of the theoretical understanding. Finally unleash them on the problems of the day.
What could we do if we could blend the best of all humanity into every child? What worlds would they build?
FunkyGibbon said:
I suspect industry is screaming out for people who can read/write/count and be articulate, this should be achievable by most by the ages of 16 or 18. But it is not. So higher ed is often used to hone those skills, not actually any other specific technical skills. Specific technical skills can be honed on the job by apprenticeships and things like HNC/HND.
Industry disagrees. Which is why nearly all engineering jobs are looking for degree qualified engineers. Not HND with experience.Edited by FunkyGibbon on Friday 2nd September 19:01
Just go on any engineering company job site...
It will be very interesting what happens in the coming years with regards to parental attitudes to degrees.
I would say we are coming to the end at the moment of parents who grew up under the older university model where to go was quite a big deal and meant you where a high achiever. It would almost certainly help you on in life. My parents certainly grew up with that being the case my father regularly declares he wasn’t bright enough for university. He has designed parts of satellites and targeting systems for ICBMs, safe to say he is not stupid.
Because of this attitude my parents made it fking clear they would do everything to get me into university. It was completely non negotiable I was going. To them to go the uni was to be a level higher than them.
I wonder as the children of that generation like me have now matured and found the degrees to be in many cases totally pointless. Will have a different attitude when advising their children.
For clarity I think degrees have their place but I think it needs to be controlled a bit more. You obviously need one to be a doctor or lawyer, but perhaps make the less useable ones less attractive. For many it’s just the next thing to do for another 3 years of minimum responsibility and having a jolly good laugh. Which it is for many and that shouldn’t change. It makes a lot of people grow up as well.
It’s interesting that with my friends. Those that went to Uni with a clear purpose and desire to go to certain university loved every second whilst getting a degree that have gone on to use. Those that just went to any old uni because they felt they should had a laugh but have said they would think harder if they had to choose again. I guess a big issue is we are asking 18 year olds to make what is quite a big decision with quite a lot of foresight, despite being adults most at that age simply aren’t ready to do so. I know I wasn’t.
I would say we are coming to the end at the moment of parents who grew up under the older university model where to go was quite a big deal and meant you where a high achiever. It would almost certainly help you on in life. My parents certainly grew up with that being the case my father regularly declares he wasn’t bright enough for university. He has designed parts of satellites and targeting systems for ICBMs, safe to say he is not stupid.
Because of this attitude my parents made it f
king clear they would do everything to get me into university. It was completely non negotiable I was going. To them to go the uni was to be a level higher than them. I wonder as the children of that generation like me have now matured and found the degrees to be in many cases totally pointless. Will have a different attitude when advising their children.
For clarity I think degrees have their place but I think it needs to be controlled a bit more. You obviously need one to be a doctor or lawyer, but perhaps make the less useable ones less attractive. For many it’s just the next thing to do for another 3 years of minimum responsibility and having a jolly good laugh. Which it is for many and that shouldn’t change. It makes a lot of people grow up as well.
It’s interesting that with my friends. Those that went to Uni with a clear purpose and desire to go to certain university loved every second whilst getting a degree that have gone on to use. Those that just went to any old uni because they felt they should had a laugh but have said they would think harder if they had to choose again. I guess a big issue is we are asking 18 year olds to make what is quite a big decision with quite a lot of foresight, despite being adults most at that age simply aren’t ready to do so. I know I wasn’t.
ntiz said:
I guess a big issue is we are asking 18 year olds to make what is quite a big decision with quite a lot of foresight, despite being adults most at that age simply aren’t ready to do so. I know I wasn’t.
The decision isn't made at 18. For most it begins at 14 shen they choose GCSE then 16 when they choose A levels, and by 17 most will have a shortlist of universities they want to attend.And then when they do go to uni at 18, they're still considered financially dependent on their parents, despite also agreeing to huge personal debt...
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