Should the UK leave the ECHR?

[bitchstewie]

This is in the news at the moment because of the failed bid to deport migrants to Rwanda and the latest bit of Government red meat is that all options are on the table including leaving the ECHR.

To those that would support leaving the ECHR how many of your own rights are you happy to give up simply because you don't think another group of people should benefit from those same rights?

So for example you might support us leaving the ECHR because then we could deport those pesky migrants but that seems slightly short sighted given that one a day a Government might do something that impacts you where you might be grateful that we're in the ECHR.

It would be good if this didn't turn into a migrants thread as there's already one for that.

[Lotobear]

what do you think Stewie?

[GroundZero]

I'd say yes the UK should.
As a sovereign nation 'we', as a collective democracy, should be able to install UK policy/legislation/laws to cater for refugees instead of being servant to a supranational treaty which is obviously not fit for purpose.

[Al Gorithum]

Anything that Boris comes up with is going to be utter excrement.

[ZedLeg]

Based on the ghouls we have in power absolutely not.

[roger.mellie]

GroundZero said:

I'd say yes the UK should.
As a sovereign nation 'we', as a collective democracy, should be able to install UK policy/legislation/laws to cater for refugees instead of being servant to a supranational treaty which is obviously not fit for purpose.

UK was fundamental in setting up the ECHR, but yip some would drag the country back to the stone ages. Servant my arse, why would a country have a problem with human rights legislation?

[Mortarboard]

Ok class, hands up how many of you know which agreements to which the UK is a party to, have consequences in the event of the UK leaving the ECHR?

M.

[bitchstewie]

Lotobear said:

what do you think Stewie?

Personally it seems like a poorly thought through knee jerk reaction.

Do people really feel that strongly about any other group of people or have that much faith in any Government that they'd willingly give up the protections the ECHR affords them just to get one over on them?

[crankedup5]

GroundZero said:

I'd say yes the UK should.
As a sovereign nation 'we', as a collective democracy, should be able to install UK policy/legislation/laws to cater for refugees instead of being servant to a supranational treaty which is obviously not fit for purpose.

100% agreed. The old ECHR agreements are passed sell by date and not able to fulfil the needs of
those concerned regarding the U.K.

[GetCarter]

crankedup5 said:

GroundZero said:

I'd say yes the UK should.
As a sovereign nation 'we', as a collective democracy, should be able to install UK policy/legislation/laws to cater for refugees instead of being servant to a supranational treaty which is obviously not fit for purpose.

100% agreed. The old ECHR agreements are passed sell by date and not able to fulfil the needs of
those concerned regarding the U.K.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA

[roger.mellie]

Mortarboard said:

Ok class, hands up how many of you know which agreements to which the UK is a party to, have consequences in the event of the UK leaving the ECHR?

M.

Lol, I can think of one which I think is the one that you might be thinking of too.

[bitchstewie]

GroundZero said:

I'd say yes the UK should.
As a sovereign nation 'we', as a collective democracy, should be able to install UK policy/legislation/laws to cater for refugees instead of being servant to a supranational treaty which is obviously not fit for purpose.

You're focusing on refugees though and you're pretty unlikely to need to ECHR to step in to help you personally on that front.

Are there any scenarios you could think of where the ECHR might help you?

Being discriminated against leaps to mind but I'm sure there are loads other examples.

Do you feel that strongly about refugees (the issue of the day) that you'd willingly give up your own access to the ECHR?

[GroundZero]

roger.mellie said:

UK was fundamental in setting up the ECHR, but yip some would drag the country back to the stone ages. Servant my arse, why would a country have a problem with human rights legislation?

Why would a country have a problem with human rights (by that I presume you mean human rights treaties)? Well, if you hadn't noticed, there have been over 22,000 migrant deaths that have occurred over the past number of years from those deciding to enter the EU/UK from Asia and Africa, by choosing to cross the Mediterranean and the English Channel, by either clinging to the back of HGVs, suffocating inside trailers or drowning when their dinghy capsizes.

If anybody can attempt to rationalise that as being a "fit for purpose" treaty then you simply have no compassion what so ever.

So, to use your analogy, we are currently in the stone ages and some are trying to bring the UK in to modern times.

[garagewidow]

bhstewie said:

a Government might do something that impacts you where you might be grateful that we're in the ECHR.

That's ok we'd just vote them out at the next election.

I don't know what a government could do to me that wouldn't affect millions of other people unless being a bald middle aged working man becomes a reason to be singled out,....oh! hang on....

[Vanden Saab]

We do not need to leave, that is just the usual frothing from the usual suspects such as the OP. Our own actually UK qualified judges can already overrule decisions made by the ECtHR as they have done in the past and will do in the future along with every other country that is signed up to it.

[bitchstewie]

garagewidow said:

bhstewie said:

a Government might do something that impacts you where you might be grateful that we're in the ECHR.

That's ok we'd just vote them out at the next election.

I don't know what a government could do to me that wouldn't affect millions of other people unless being a bald middle aged working man becomes a reason to be singled out,....oh! hang on....

What if they change the law so you can't vote in the next election?

Pick a reason but let's say it's because you're a bald middle aged working man for example.

And they remove your ability to challenge that sort of thing in the UK courts.

[crankedup5]

bhstewie said:

GroundZero said:

I'd say yes the UK should.
As a sovereign nation 'we', as a collective democracy, should be able to install UK policy/legislation/laws to cater for refugees instead of being servant to a supranational treaty which is obviously not fit for purpose.

You're focusing on refugees though and you're pretty unlikely to need to ECHR to step in to help you personally on that front.

Are there any scenarios you could think of where the ECHR might help you?

Being discriminated against leaps to mind but I'm sure there are loads other examples.

Do you feel that strongly about refugees (the issue of the day) that you'd willingly give up your own access to the ECHR?

The ECHR is yet another panel of experts making decisions on behalf of those signed up. It chucked Russia out of the club for obvious reasons, is that it? Seems to be a largely toothless organisation much like the WHO. Both well meaning but seem to be organisations of a World of the past.
With U.K. adopting much of what it has agreed to why would it be a problem for the U.K. to leave this club?

[crankedup5]

Vanden Saab said:

We do not need to leave, that is just the usual frothing from the usual suspects such as the OP. Our own actually UK qualified judges can already overrule decisions made by the ECtHR as they have done in the past and will do in the future along with every other country that is signed up to it.

I didn’t know this was possible!

[ZedLeg]

crankedup5 said:

The ECHR is yet another panel of experts making decisions on behalf of those signed up. It chucked Russia out of the club for obvious reasons, is that it? Seems to be a largely toothless organisation much like the WHO. Both well meaning but seem to be organisations of a World of the past.
With U.K. adopting much of what it has agreed to why would it be a problem for the U.K. to leave this club?

Without oversight UKgov could remove any rights it doesn't like. Protection for refugees, equality for minorities and protected characteristics, voting protections.

I don't trust this government to deal with rights in a sensible way.

[untakenname]

bhstewie said:

This is in the news at the moment because of the failed bid to deport migrants to Rwanda and the latest bit of Government red meat is that all options are on the table including leaving the ECHR.

To those that would support leaving the ECHR how many of your own rights are you happy to give up simply because you don't think another group of people should benefit from those same rights?

So for example you might support us leaving the ECHR because then we could deport those pesky migrants but that seems slightly short sighted given that one a day a Government might do something that impacts you where you might be grateful that we're in the ECHR.

It would be good if this didn't turn into a migrants thread as there's already one for that.

Why not include a poll in the OP?

I'm guessing at some point during the summer when the numbers of sea arrivals increase the government will hold a referendum so the issue can be decided democratically.