Russia - After Putin?
Discussion
Putin's obviously not leaving The Kremlin any time soon, but with further and more aggresive incursions into Ukraine, what next for Russia? With comments like the Minsk agreement being killed off long ago and no longer exists, and not recognising Ukraine as a Sovereign Nation, how long can Putin continue? Are there younger "Putin Clones" waiting in the wings longing for the reinstating of the USSR, or is Putin the last of his breed.....?
How will Russia change when Putin finally goes........?
How will Russia change when Putin finally goes........?
928 GTS said:
Putin doesn't go. Meaning he can't leave power and retire. He simply can't trust anyone ever and therefore has to remain seated until he drops dead.
100pc agree....but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
BikeBikeBIke said:
928 GTS said:
Putin doesn't go. Meaning he can't leave power and retire. He simply can't trust anyone ever and therefore has to remain seated until he drops dead.
100pc agree....but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
BikeBikeBIke said:
928 GTS said:
Putin doesn't go. Meaning he can't leave power and retire. He simply can't trust anyone ever and therefore has to remain seated until he drops dead.
100pc agree....but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
I doubt Russia will become a 'normal' democracy, not for a very long time. Putin is not alone, he's got a long line of ex-KGB/FSB a
holes behind him all would love to try the crown on for size. So the same thing will happen when a dictator dies, he'll have a successor but there will be a fight. Someone will win and assume the throne.rjfp1962 said:
Putin's obviously not leaving The Kremlin any time soon, but with further and more aggresive incursions into Ukraine, what next for Russia? With comments like the Minsk agreement being killed off long ago and no longer exists, and not recognising Ukraine as a Sovereign Nation, how long can Putin continue? Are there younger "Putin Clones" waiting in the wings longing for the reinstating of the USSR, or is Putin the last of his breed.....?
How will Russia change when Putin finally goes........?
Alexei Navalny could be possible if he survives. How will Russia change when Putin finally goes........?
James6112 said:
You say he’s obviously not leaving.
But there seems to be some discomfort from senior aides there.
This could break him..
That's a pretty good point. We all assume he's unassailable, but if he was unassailable he probably wouldn't feel he had to do something as desperate as this.But there seems to be some discomfort from senior aides there.
This could break him..
Maybe someone will slip something in his tea.
If the West have the balls to apply serious sanctions that hit the real money holders in Russia hard (ie. Lock up all Russian held assets in the West) then he may just find himself in a corner with an ice pick at his neck very quickly.
I have a good number of Russian friends from way back and they all would love to see the back of the little prick.
I have a good number of Russian friends from way back and they all would love to see the back of the little prick.
BikeBikeBIke said:
928 GTS said:
Putin doesn't go. Meaning he can't leave power and retire. He simply can't trust anyone ever and therefore has to remain seated until he drops dead.
100pc agree....but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Wills2 said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
100pc agree.
...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Yep there is always hope.......but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
BikeBikeBIke said:
100pc agree.
...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
What like Canada, France or NZ for example? I'm not sure what's worse. The word 'normal' is obviously subjective, but the way The West are conducting themselves at present, I'm not sure we can reliably define what is a democracy. ...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Also funny how all of these countries are all headed by WEF YGL- Young Global Leaders. That's real democracy in action for you
CIELLA said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
100pc agree.
...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
What like Canada, France or NZ for example? I'm not sure what's worse. The word 'normal' is obviously subjective, but the way The West are conducting themselves at present, I'm not sure we can reliably define what is a democracy. ...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Also funny how all of these countries are all headed by WEF YGL- Young Global Leaders. That's real democracy in action for you
CIELLA said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
100pc agree.
...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
What like Canada, France or NZ for example? I'm not sure what's worse. The word 'normal' is obviously subjective, but the way The West are conducting themselves at present, I'm not sure we can reliably define what is a democracy. ...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Also funny how all of these countries are all headed by WEF YGL- Young Global Leaders. That's real democracy in action for you
we in the west have the ability to vote in/out our leaders and whilst they’re in power their behaviour is scrutinised and accountable. Russia has none of these controls and people like putin can erase and silence people who disagree. If we don’t like our leaders we vote them out without fear of vanishing or mysteriously falling off balconies.
Boom78 said:
CIELLA said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
100pc agree.
...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
What like Canada, France or NZ for example? I'm not sure what's worse. The word 'normal' is obviously subjective, but the way The West are conducting themselves at present, I'm not sure we can reliably define what is a democracy. ...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Also funny how all of these countries are all headed by WEF YGL- Young Global Leaders. That's real democracy in action for you
we in the west have the ability to vote in/out our leaders and whilst they’re in power their behaviour is scrutinised and accountable. Russia has none of these controls and people like putin can erase and silence people who disagree. If we don’t like our leaders we vote them out without fear of vanishing or mysteriously falling off balconies.
I'm not here suggesting Russia is the bastion of light to all things political. I wouldn't want to live there. However making claims about scrutiny and accountability in The West is nonsense. I'm all for highlighting any and all of Putin's failings, but I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to claim how righteous we are. Just look at the mess we have made with our interventions all over The M.E, Libya and elsewhere. I don't think we are in any position to be claiming the moral high ground in politics.
CIELLA said:
Boom78 said:
CIELLA said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
100pc agree.
...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
What like Canada, France or NZ for example? I'm not sure what's worse. The word 'normal' is obviously subjective, but the way The West are conducting themselves at present, I'm not sure we can reliably define what is a democracy. ...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Also funny how all of these countries are all headed by WEF YGL- Young Global Leaders. That's real democracy in action for you
we in the west have the ability to vote in/out our leaders and whilst they’re in power their behaviour is scrutinised and accountable. Russia has none of these controls and people like putin can erase and silence people who disagree. If we don’t like our leaders we vote them out without fear of vanishing or mysteriously falling off balconies.
I'm not here suggesting Russia is the bastion of light to all things political. I wouldn't want to live there. However making claims about scrutiny and accountability in The West is nonsense. I'm all for highlighting any and all of Putin's failings, but I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to claim how righteous we are. Just look at the mess we have made with our interventions all over The M.E, Libya and elsewhere. I don't think we are in any position to be claiming the moral high ground in politics.
Derek Smith said:
CIELLA said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
100pc agree.
...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
What like Canada, France or NZ for example? I'm not sure what's worse. The word 'normal' is obviously subjective, but the way The West are conducting themselves at present, I'm not sure we can reliably define what is a democracy. ...but the next guy probably won't have the same baggage from past corruption and crimes so in theory Russia could become a 'normal' democracy at that point. Let's hope so.
Also funny how all of these countries are all headed by WEF YGL- Young Global Leaders. That's real democracy in action for you
The answer is no.
I think history might be kinder to Putin than much of the current coverage is. He took power in Russia at a very turbulent and uncertain time and has managed to keep the country together and at some sort of peace. There's even a degree of prosperity and liberty. With the proviso that the vast country with its rocky recent history was never going compare well on such measures with Western Europe.
His foreign adventures thus far have been fairly limited, finite and relatively successful in contrast to our own. His democratic credentials are pretty poor but no worse than those of Saudi Arabia, China or others we call allies and trade partners. In many ways he isn't much worse than western authorities who are keen to denounce and sideline "misinformation" when it suits them and react with angry incredulity to any election result they don't like.
Realistically I think the option to switch sides and become a western liberal democracy in the way that Poland or Czech Republic have done was never open to Russia both because of its internal politics and because many western leaders find Russia too useful a bogey man.
From where we are now it isn't easy to see how any successor could do much better, but easy to see how they could do a lot worse.
His foreign adventures thus far have been fairly limited, finite and relatively successful in contrast to our own. His democratic credentials are pretty poor but no worse than those of Saudi Arabia, China or others we call allies and trade partners. In many ways he isn't much worse than western authorities who are keen to denounce and sideline "misinformation" when it suits them and react with angry incredulity to any election result they don't like.
Realistically I think the option to switch sides and become a western liberal democracy in the way that Poland or Czech Republic have done was never open to Russia both because of its internal politics and because many western leaders find Russia too useful a bogey man.
From where we are now it isn't easy to see how any successor could do much better, but easy to see how they could do a lot worse.
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