Weird Story, Mosquito Pilot's Bones on North York Moors

[mike74]

Bit of an odd one, I assume we're free to discuss it as no charges have been brought.

The bones of two Mosquito aircrew who crashed in 1944 were discovered on the North York Moors in 2020, initially a 72 year old man was facing charges in relation to the discovery but subsequently no charges have been brought.

Why weren't these bodies recovered at the time of the crash? And how can a man who was born 4 years after the incident have any part to play in it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-y...

[Chris Type R]

mike74 said:

And how can a man who was born 4 years after the incident have any part to play in it?

Perhaps he was arrested before it became clear that the human remains were from WWII pilots.

Otherwise, it is indeed an odd story.

[BikeBikeBIke]

I presume the 70yo man found the crash site and looted it for bits of 'plane rather than immediately reporting it.

I doubt he was interested in the bones at all.

[Chris Type R]

Ah - some answers here - https://www.becclesandbungayjournal.co.uk/news/rem...

[mike74]

BikeBikeBIke said:

I presume the 70yo man found the crash site and looted it for bits of 'plane rather than immediately reporting it.

I doubt he was interested in the bones at all.

Are you suggesting the crash site was only just discovered (by him) in 2020?

Surely not?

[Oneball]

mike74 said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

I presume the 70yo man found the crash site and looted it for bits of 'plane rather than immediately reporting it.

I doubt he was interested in the bones at all.

Are you suggesting the crash site was only just discovered (by him) in 2020?

Surely not?

The news article says parts of the aircraft were found in the old bloke’s farm, which is nowhere near the crash site.

Edited by Oneball on Friday 4th February 19:28

[Ouroboros]

Chris Type R said:

Perhaps he was arrested before it became clear that the human remains were from WWII pilots.

Otherwise, it is indeed an odd story.

Still odd as it seems the police pursued if was only ''The Crown Prosecution Service had determined there was not enough evidence to pursue suspected offences.

Surely the police would use common sense?

[BikeBikeBIke]

mike74 said:

Are you suggesting the crash site was only just discovered (by him) in 2020?

Surely not?

Yes I was. Crashed aircraft get embedded deep in the ground and they weren't very thorough at cleaning up in WW2.

It's possible (likely) the crash site was never discovered, or even that they cleared up everything visible and left it with substantial chunks of plane and crew underground.

Also the term "skeltons" might be misleading, it's entirely possible we're talking about bone fragments from a mashed up crew.

They've found aircraft with the pilot still in them in London in recent years so out in the sticks it's a cert. And then there's Europe and Russia where, again it's common.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Oneball said:

The news article says the crew’s remains and parts of the aircraft were found in the old bloke’s barn, which is nowhere near the crash site.

It doesn't say the crews remains were found in the out buildings.

[mike74]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Yes I was. Crashed aircraft get embedded deep in the ground and they weren't very thorough at cleaning up in WW2.

It's possible (likely) the crash site was never discovered, or even that they cleared up everything visible and left it with substantial chunks of plane and crew underground.

Also the term "skeltons" might be misleading, it's entirely possible we're talking about bone fragments from a mashed up crew.

They've found aircraft with the pilot still in them in London in recent years so out in the sticks it's a cert. And then there's Europe and Russia where, again it's common.

Fair point, I suppose it's a possibility the aircraft went into soft peat near vertically and embedded itself deep in the ground, but still hard to comprehend a WW2 crash site remaining entirely undiscovered for over 70 years on the UK mainland.

I am familiar with quite a few WW2 aircraft wrecks in the Peak District but in most of them cases the planes made contact with the plateu type terrain whilst in straight and level flight so remained relatively intact on crashing.

[Oneball]

BikeBikeBIke said:

It doesn't say the crews remains were found in the out buildings.

God knows how I read it as that. I’ll change it.

[Gareth79]

Indeed the police operation apparently went on for many weeks, so it must have involved them digging up land.

One thing on the article mentioned which is significant "The property involved was home to the Ward family for more than 300 years before being sold. Former occupant Kenneth Ward was a collector of military memorabilia, including aircraft, some of which was removed during the investigation."

Various possibilities:
- The former owner stole/acquired the wreckage and bones together, kept the wreckage and buried the bones, and the current owner knew about it and told somebody who told the police
- As above, but the current owner was unaware and discovered them when digging the land
- The crash happened on the land and the current owner discovered the wreckage, and it was sheer coincidence that the former owner collected military parts/wreckage.

[BikeBikeBIke]

mike74 said:

Fair point, I suppose it's a possibility the aircraft went into soft peat near vertically and embedded itself deep in the ground, but still hard to comprehend a WW2 crash site remaining entirely undiscovered for over 70 years on the UK mainland.

I don't think it's unusual, I saw this one from Hove in a museum a few weeks back, pilot was still there in 1996:

https://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/artefact-month/...

I'm curious now how many unrecovered aircraft there are with sites that were never accurately recorded. They can't all have gone in the sea. Google is no help. I bet it's 3 figures.

There were a *lot* of UK plane crashes in WW2. In my last house I researched it and found there were three WW2 crash sites within walking distance of my front door, and where I live now there are three within walking distance *that I know of* and I haven't done any research at all - those are crashes I've just randomly learned of. (Admittedly, I now live in a hotspot of the BofB, but even so.)

I think in 1940 you found the crash site, recovered what was visible and the big chunks of body and called it a day. In 2020 we're a bit more forensic and find that actually 60pc of the body is still scattered about and loads of plane. Or the body was vaporised so they lobbed stones in the coffin to give the family something to bury and 80 years later the entire skeleton is there in bone fragment form when all there was in 1940 was a red stain nobody wanted to touch.

[tracer.smart]

Oneball said:

mike74 said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

I presume the 70yo man found the crash site and looted it for bits of 'plane rather than immediately reporting it.

I doubt he was interested in the bones at all.

Are you suggesting the crash site was only just discovered (by him) in 2020?

Surely not?

The news article says parts of the aircraft were found in the old bloke’s farm, which is nowhere near the crash site.

Edited by Oneball on Friday 4th February 19:28

I visited the crash site some years back - the impact crater is now a marsh, and there are chunks of the plane littered all around. It’s not particularly isolated - about a half hour from the road on open moorland - but a little tricky to find.

The 70yo bloke referenced here appears to have history with disturbing aircrew remains, and it appears even more disturbing recent events involving sustained harassment of his neighbour that led to him being jailed. He was in possession of uniform from the crew of a Ju88 that power dived into Eston Hills. Makes you wonder what else he found. Reference >

“ The aircraft parts collector from Bilsdale Mr Ken Ward dug this crash site in 1977 and recovered a lot of the aircraft including one of the engines as well as part of the uniform of one of the crew, to dig this site even back in 1977 when it was a known war-grave does seem slightly abhorrent.”

[BikeBikeBIke]

tracer.smart said:

I visited the crash site some years back - the impact crater is now a marsh, and there are chunks of the plane littered all around. It’s not particularly isolated - about a half hour from the road on open moorland - but a little tricky to find.

The 70yo bloke referenced here appears to have history with disturbing aircrew remains, and it appears even more disturbing recent events involving sustained harassment of his neighbour that led to him being jailed. He was in possession of uniform from the crew of a Ju88 that power dived into Eston Hills. Makes you wonder what else he found. Reference >

“ The aircraft parts collector from Bilsdale Mr Ken Ward dug this crash site in 1977 and recovered a lot of the aircraft including one of the engines as well as part of the uniform of one of the crew, to dig this site even back in 1977 when it was a known war-grave does seem slightly abhorrent.”

Thanks, useful post. Not as straightforward as I thought - by a large margin.

[mike74]

An update to this story following the conclusion of a Coroner's Inquest...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583725/...

[Whoozit]

mike74 said:

An update to this story following the conclusion of a Coroner's Inquest...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583725/...

All my blockers and anti-trackers break the Daily Wail website. I'm rather pleased with that!

[MesoForm]

Whoozit said:

mike74 said:

An update to this story following the conclusion of a Coroner's Inquest...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583725/...

All my blockers and anti-trackers break the Daily Wail website. I'm rather pleased with that!

It’s nothing like the stereotypical Mail article - it’sa well researched, interesting read.

[carinaman]

MesoForm said:

Whoozit said:

mike74 said:

An update to this story following the conclusion of a Coroner's Inquest...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583725/...

All my blockers and anti-trackers break the Daily Wail website. I'm rather pleased with that!

It’s nothing like the stereotypical Mail article - it’sa well researched, interesting read.

It seems Sunak has done at least one good thing.

[Getragdogleg]

carinaman said:

MesoForm said:

Whoozit said:

mike74 said:

An update to this story following the conclusion of a Coroner's Inquest...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11583725/...

All my blockers and anti-trackers break the Daily Wail website. I'm rather pleased with that!

It’s nothing like the stereotypical Mail article - it’sa well researched, interesting read.

It seems Sunak has done at least one good thing.

A Mail article that was well written and actually contained news. Good job I was sitting down.