Bristol and Diesel ban
Discussion
Bristol making the news and most likely cutting it's nose off to spite it's face.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bristol-poised-...
Can see it causing problems for deliveries as they will most likely want to deliver outside the hours to save on the charge
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bristol-poised-...
Can see it causing problems for deliveries as they will most likely want to deliver outside the hours to save on the charge
Less than 2 weeks ago:
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/fi...
Same council running old, poluting busess.
I work on the outskirts (north) a few days a week and live in a nearish town, plus drive a euro 5 diesel as the daily, 20k miles a year (travel to reading and Worcester frequently).
Traffic is awful, focussing on that would help. Currently nothing else really offers an alternative
(Except, bizarrely a m140i .... Car allowance and miles paid in accordance with advisory fuel rates = 11p a mile for 2.0 tdi, returning 55mpg long term average (real), or 21p per mile for anything iver 2.0 petrol)
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/fi...
Same council running old, poluting busess.
I work on the outskirts (north) a few days a week and live in a nearish town, plus drive a euro 5 diesel as the daily, 20k miles a year (travel to reading and Worcester frequently).
Traffic is awful, focussing on that would help. Currently nothing else really offers an alternative
(Except, bizarrely a m140i .... Car allowance and miles paid in accordance with advisory fuel rates = 11p a mile for 2.0 tdi, returning 55mpg long term average (real), or 21p per mile for anything iver 2.0 petrol)
The emissions from the older buses are truly horrendous, I regularly see 53 plate double deckers on my cycle to work and have to hold my breath if I’m behind one, but the really bad ones are kept out of the centre on suburban routes....
The Mayor is a chancer, totally out of his depth and the Council are too busy apologising for the slave trade to see what impact their policies will have.
But yes, small businesses will be hardest hit by bigger companies not delivering in working hours and I’m sure many people live without the boundary and who can’t afford a new car will be stuck with a car that locally at least, is now worth much less second hand.
There’s been a joke for years that there is a “Keep Bristol small” campaign holding the Council to ransom....
The Mayor is a chancer, totally out of his depth and the Council are too busy apologising for the slave trade to see what impact their policies will have.
But yes, small businesses will be hardest hit by bigger companies not delivering in working hours and I’m sure many people live without the boundary and who can’t afford a new car will be stuck with a car that locally at least, is now worth much less second hand.
There’s been a joke for years that there is a “Keep Bristol small” campaign holding the Council to ransom....
Note the Council vote on 5th Nov is only for development o fteh Outline Business Case - i.e. to enable the outline ideas to be developed and ultimately market tested - i.e. go to public consultation - years away from implementation.
I think it interesting that BCC have clearly learned from recent consultation in Bath a year ago, which orig proposed measures such as £9/day for pre-Eu4 petrol cars/ pre Eu6 diesels, and that got solidly rejected by over 8000 responses from about the 40000 adults who lived in the affected area. For obvious, and fairly simple reasons, from 'it worst affects those we need most/ are paid least' to 'no effing choice but to cross the centre to cross the city at all - and that includes tens of thousands living in outlying villages' And many more themes besides.
And face it - as it is, no one drives in inner-city Bristol becasue they [b]want[/b[ to! It's a miserable waste of one's life to do so. It only happens because, for so many purposes, there's no reasonable alternative ...
I think it interesting that BCC have clearly learned from recent consultation in Bath a year ago, which orig proposed measures such as £9/day for pre-Eu4 petrol cars/ pre Eu6 diesels, and that got solidly rejected by over 8000 responses from about the 40000 adults who lived in the affected area. For obvious, and fairly simple reasons, from 'it worst affects those we need most/ are paid least' to 'no effing choice but to cross the centre to cross the city at all - and that includes tens of thousands living in outlying villages' And many more themes besides.
And face it - as it is, no one drives in inner-city Bristol becasue they [b]want[/b[ to! It's a miserable waste of one's life to do so. It only happens because, for so many purposes, there's no reasonable alternative ...
Edited by Huff on Tuesday 29th October 22:35
I'm not surprised and expect other towns/cities will be watching with interest.
Seems to be only until 3pm so no so bad for deliveries.
At some point, London's ULEZ will be extended further and I expect towns inside the M25 will be thinking about operating a similar scheme. One of the reasons I didn't buy a diesel.
Seems to be only until 3pm so no so bad for deliveries.
At some point, London's ULEZ will be extended further and I expect towns inside the M25 will be thinking about operating a similar scheme. One of the reasons I didn't buy a diesel.
All the councils seem content on destroying city centers. Then launch programmes to get the high streets thriving again.
Newcastle Council has a new plan after its CAZ plans faced public backlash. They are going to put bus lanes in 2 of the 4 lanes over the Tyne bridge in an effort to make driving difficult and cut pollution. For those who don't know Newcastle too well the Tyne bridge is a major route.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-ne...
Newcastle Council has a new plan after its CAZ plans faced public backlash. They are going to put bus lanes in 2 of the 4 lanes over the Tyne bridge in an effort to make driving difficult and cut pollution. For those who don't know Newcastle too well the Tyne bridge is a major route.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-ne...
Its been discussed on here at length, most major UK cities will implement some form of LEZ before 2022.
Currently, Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester. (maybe others I am not aware of)
I think Bristol is the first to go after normal cars though.
Honestly, I am happy for them to do so. If diesel pollution is that dangerous that the local authorities are willing to bankrupt thousands of small businesses then I think its only right these regulations apply to all diesel vehicles.
Currently, Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester. (maybe others I am not aware of)
I think Bristol is the first to go after normal cars though.
Honestly, I am happy for them to do so. If diesel pollution is that dangerous that the local authorities are willing to bankrupt thousands of small businesses then I think its only right these regulations apply to all diesel vehicles.
red_slr said:
Honestly, I am happy for them to do so. If diesel pollution is that dangerous that the local authorities are willing to bankrupt thousands of small businesses then I think its only right these regulations apply to all diesel vehicles.
But they are applying it to diesels that meet the latest pollution controls and exempting old petrol motors?. That just seems like unscientific prejudice to me. 
I went to the Bristol City Council building a few months ago when they were holding a consultation day.
The council representative couldn't explain why modern diesels would be banned but not old petrols, he kept repeating that diesels are bad.
In the small print for the diesel car ban it mentioned incentives for local taxi drivers to buy less polluting vehicles, when I asked about this it turned out that Euro 6 diesel cars were considered less polluting and taxi drivers could claim loans or grants to buy one. I asked how this made sense when city taxi drivers spend the whole day driving in the city and often sit with engines idling, but he said this was okay as the new diesels were less polluting.
During the discussion he said that they were not worried about those people rich enough to be able to afford a modern (euro 6) diesel car, but that they had to look after those people who could only afford an old petrol car.
I didn't tell him that if I became unable to drive my Euro 6 diesel car to work in Bristol then I would bring my old Porsche 911 instead.
At that time there were 2 options, one was a diesel car ban in the city centre and the other was a HGV and LGV ban (or daily charge) across a larger area of the city.
The council representative couldn't explain why modern diesels would be banned but not old petrols, he kept repeating that diesels are bad.
In the small print for the diesel car ban it mentioned incentives for local taxi drivers to buy less polluting vehicles, when I asked about this it turned out that Euro 6 diesel cars were considered less polluting and taxi drivers could claim loans or grants to buy one. I asked how this made sense when city taxi drivers spend the whole day driving in the city and often sit with engines idling, but he said this was okay as the new diesels were less polluting.
During the discussion he said that they were not worried about those people rich enough to be able to afford a modern (euro 6) diesel car, but that they had to look after those people who could only afford an old petrol car.
I didn't tell him that if I became unable to drive my Euro 6 diesel car to work in Bristol then I would bring my old Porsche 911 instead.
At that time there were 2 options, one was a diesel car ban in the city centre and the other was a HGV and LGV ban (or daily charge) across a larger area of the city.
JagLover said:
But they are applying it to diesels that meet the latest pollution controls and exempting old petrol motors?. That just seems like unscientific prejudice to me.
Like media and the public always. Petrol is equally environmental unfriendly, but no one care as it is difficult to be seen unlike diesel, and the damage isn’t instantaneous like diesel. When the public and politicians and media shift the blame on “nitrogen oxide”, I am surprise diesel get all the blame while 2 wheels dodge the bullet.I believed most councils banning diesel is more a move of “political correct”
PositronicRay said:
ChevyChase77 said:
Isn't Bristol under control of Labour? Wasn't it a Labour MP who told everyone to buy diesel cars because they were 'cleaner' than petrol?
I can't see a labour MP's view on fuel having a signicant effect, which one was it? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715
The age of the car is coming to an end, but, both at Government and Local level, there are no real, efficient, alternatives offered!
What are You and I, the Guy in the street, paying taxes etc. supposed to do with our cars, be they Euro 4/5/6 or an old snotter? Most of us cannot afford to basically throw them away and get a brand new electric car! We'd all love to I'm sure, but the cost is prohibitive for most, and the infrastructure is not yet available nationwide, for it to work for Us!!
Town centres are suffering already, we mostly go to out of town shopping centres rather than wait for crappy, polluting, public transport, to visit a High Street with nothing we want, or more expensive than Online!
These Councilors and their Government counterparts expect us to be able to follow the Gospel according to Greta overnight! We can't do that because we still have to live!! Not just exist!! "Look at us everybody, the new Lord Mayors car is an EV!! We are Soooo Green!" And who pays for it??
Sorry,this was in danger of going on to be an absolute rant but I stopped myself in time!!
NB; Please Think of the Environment and Don't print this unless you can recycle it as loo paper!!
What are You and I, the Guy in the street, paying taxes etc. supposed to do with our cars, be they Euro 4/5/6 or an old snotter? Most of us cannot afford to basically throw them away and get a brand new electric car! We'd all love to I'm sure, but the cost is prohibitive for most, and the infrastructure is not yet available nationwide, for it to work for Us!!
Town centres are suffering already, we mostly go to out of town shopping centres rather than wait for crappy, polluting, public transport, to visit a High Street with nothing we want, or more expensive than Online!
These Councilors and their Government counterparts expect us to be able to follow the Gospel according to Greta overnight! We can't do that because we still have to live!! Not just exist!! "Look at us everybody, the new Lord Mayors car is an EV!! We are Soooo Green!" And who pays for it??
Sorry,this was in danger of going on to be an absolute rant but I stopped myself in time!!
NB; Please Think of the Environment and Don't print this unless you can recycle it as loo paper!!
Johnnytheboy said:
I've got two fortnightly jobs in Bristol and a diesel van.
I'll just put my price up and if they don't like it they can cancel.
There is no other option.
I run euro 6 Scania V8's, we have two customers whom we deliver to twice a week. They are a backload from Plymouth, but pay full rates as I don't believe in 'backload rates'. Same as you I'll put my rate up, if they don't like it, they can use someone else as there's plenty work coming back up north!I'll just put my price up and if they don't like it they can cancel.
There is no other option.
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