Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not! Vol 3

[Scrump]

Continued from here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[berlintaxi]

Wiccan of Darkness said:
We send billions of pounds of aid to Africa, we raise millions through comic relief. The only way those communities will improve is through trade; if we buy their cocoa, buy their sugar cane and not have whopping great import tariffs so we can sell at a reasonable price and buy at a reasonable price, then their communities will improve. That is how the UK can help impoverished nations. But we can't, because the EU actively prohibits free trade with developing nations by imposing massive tariffs.

berlintaxi said:
How would this work, no deal Brexit? if so it is complete nonsense, under WTO terms if we allowed african nations zero tariffs on their sugar cane we would have to allow the same to every other country so the US would flood the UK with their sugar cane, how would that help the african nations?

Dr Jekyll
Under WTO we could have an agreement with an African nation not to tax their sugar cane, we can't do that if we are in the EU or in the EU's customs union as part of a deal.

We could do that only by establishing a trade agreement with them not just by saying we are trading on WTO terms,and it would take a good few years to negotiate an agreement, meanwhile do you honestly think if we were to offer them zero tarrifs the Americans wouldn't demand the same terms?

Edited by berlintaxi on Friday 21st June 07:17

[citizensm1th]

berlintaxi said:

Wiccan of Darkness said:
We send billions of pounds of aid to Africa, we raise millions through comic relief. The only way those communities will improve is through trade; if we buy their cocoa, buy their sugar cane and not have whopping great import tariffs so we can sell at a reasonable price and buy at a reasonable price, then their communities will improve. That is how the UK can help impoverished nations. But we can't, because the EU actively prohibits free trade with developing nations by imposing massive tariffs.

berlintaxi said:
How would this work, no deal Brexit? if so it is complete nonsense, under WTO terms if we allowed african nations zero tariffs on their sugar cane we would have to allow the same to every other country so the US would flood the UK with their sugar cane, how would that help the african nations?

Dr Jekyll
Under WTO we could have an agreement with an African nation not to tax their sugar cane, we can't do that if we are in the EU or in the EU's customs union as part of a deal.

We could do that only by establishing a trade agreement with them not just by saying we are trading on WTO terms,and it would take a good few years to negotiate an agreement, meanwhile do you honestly think if we were to offer them zero tarrifs the Americans wouldn't demand the same terms?

Edited by berlintaxi on Friday 21st June 07:17

A lot of farmers in the east of england would be mighty pissed off if we brought in tariff free cane sugar as well ,this has been done to death on here before T&L sugar is only more expensive because it is cane sugar that we as a country have no need to be importing.

[nammynake]

Any of the Tories above care to comment on WHAT Laura said last night, or should we assume that only making childish comments about her accent (yes accent; not lack of education) is an indication that you agree with her?

[LurkingLurcher]

She is right that austerity has affected communities negatively, but I'm not sure that just throwing money at everything without the means to fund it is the answer either, we ended up pretty broke after the last labour government. She also failed to answer why she supports Corbyn with his antisemitism.

As for her accent, dropping 'T's is not part of it, but simply lazy speech.

[gizlaroc]

citizensm1th said:

A lot of farmers in the east of england would be mighty pissed off if we brought in tariff free cane sugar as well ,this has been done to death on here before T&L sugar is only more expensive because it is cane sugar that we as a country have no need to be importing.

Every farmer I know, in the East of England, is desperate for Brexit to happen.

Yet, every interview on TV would make you believe they think Brexit is a crazy idea.
They forget to mention that Lord Muck who is being interviewed is actually a land owner and is getting double bubble on land subsidies and then renting out the land to others.

I have yet meet a local farmer who is not desperate to get out.



It is more of the same, look after those at the top, they will then get all the air time and make it seem like the EU is keeping UK farming going.

Edited by gizlaroc on Friday 21st June 08:05

[citizensm1th]

gizlaroc said:

citizensm1th said:

A lot of farmers in the east of england would be mighty pissed off if we brought in tariff free cane sugar as well ,this has been done to death on here before T&L sugar is only more expensive because it is cane sugar that we as a country have no need to be importing.

Every farmer I know, in the East of England, is desperate for Brexit to happen.

Yet, every interview on TV would make you believe they think Brexit is a crazy idea.
They forget to mention that Lord Muck who is being interviewed is actually a land owner and is getting double bubble on land subsidies and then renting out the land to others.

I have yet meet a local farmer who is not desperate to get out.



It is more of the same, look after those at the top, they will then get all the air time and make it seem like the EU is keeping UK farming going.

Edited by gizlaroc on Friday 21st June 08:05

You may well be right , i was talking about the stupid idea of dropping all tariffs on sugar cane and the damage it would do to our sugar beet producers.

Farmers i have spoken to in my area while generally in favour of brexit are very concerned about loss of cap payments and if UK gov will live up to the promises given on continuing payments after brexit, good luck with that continuing if the likes of corbyn gets to power.

our farmers are in for a very rocky ride after brexit as in the main our farms just do not have the scale of those overseas to compete unless the government acts to stop dumping of cheap produce into our markets

[DeejRC]

Yes they do: re farmers. I’m in the middle of Devon farming country and it’s Brexit central round here.
Not just that, but when I explicitly raised the question of Gove’s white paper on the post Brexit countryside and farming subs, the local land agent bloke went batst about the loonies.
Competing with Europe holds not a jot of fear round here and many are actively looking forward to reclaiming more of the domestic market. There are some very very efficient farmers in the UK, but also some very diverse and specific who want to push the “luxury” green farming to th green market more.

[Pieman68]

LurkingLurcher said:

As for her accent, dropping 'T's is not part of it, but simply lazy speech.

If you want to be pedantic on this you will actually find that the dropped 't' is very common in many Northern accents and actually has a grammatical term - it's known as a glottal stop

I'm guilty as charged on it's use and don't consider myself lazy - growing up in the Labour heartlands it's how everybody speaks

As for what she has to say - whilst I believe there is some merit to better funding for poorer communities I don't believe in the magic money tree or the bottomless money pit. I'm very much a centrist with possible leaning slightly to the left. I am also probably in the minority in these areas in that I voted remain (although I was very much on the fence)

There is absolutely no way that I can bring myself to vote for the current Labour shambles and their drastic far left tendencies. I also find that the swing to the left has allowed the Conservatives to swing the other way and they no longer represent me either (I did vote for them in the last 3 elections as the alternatives are pretty frightening in my opinion)

The shambles that is our current political system needs a massive rethink and an overhaul. The country is massively polarized in so many different ways and seems to revolve solely around who can scream the loudest - be that remain/leave or left/right. I think that there are many thousands in the middle who just do not feel represented in any way by any of them - I suppose in some ways I sit in LibDem land but they simply don't feel like they represent me

Somebody needs to point out to these idiots across the board that uncertainty is the worst possible scenario from an economic point of view and to just make Brexit either happen or not

[Otis Criblecoblis]

nammynake said:

Any of the Tories above care to comment on WHAT Laura said last night, or should we assume that only making childish comments about her accent (yes accent; not lack of education) is an indication that you agree with her?

Yes. Leaving the EU and a free trade deal with the US does not automatically mean the NHS can no longer be free at the point of use.
The claim kids were being removed from schools because they are poor, was an odd one I'd like to see evidence for.

[Mort7]

The highlight on QT for me was a shouty white Labour MP constantly lecturing a quietly spoken and dignified black Tory MP about racism.........

[gooner1]

Mort7 said:

The highlight on QT for me was a shouty white Labour MP constantly lecturing a quietly spoken and dignified black Tory MP about racism.........

She's the type of MP that , hopefully, will persuade many voters not to
follow their usual tribal voting. That goes for MP's of all political parties.

[Digga]

citizensm1th said:

You may well be right , i was talking about the stupid idea of dropping all tariffs on sugar cane and the damage it would do to our sugar beet producers.

Why? Should we have introduced tariffs in order to save Austin Rover? I think we all know the answer to that.

Tariffs distort a free market, very often at the cost of poorer nations, and cause inefficiencies. Other than to punish corrupt regimes or to prevent blatant dumping, tariffs serve no real purpose and benefit neither the consumer (who always pays a higher price where tariffs exist) or the producers.

Pieman68 said:

Somebody needs to point out to these idiots across the board that uncertainty is the worst possible scenario from an economic point of view and to just make Brexit either happen or not

Quite. It is fairly toxic and can only get worse. IMHO there are two options;

1. declare Brexit unachievable
2. leave with no deal

Neither will be popular, but both are pragmatic means to a resolution and, thereby, the end of the beginning of the process.

[nammynake]

Mort7 said:

The highlight on QT for me was a shouty white Labour MP constantly lecturing a quietly spoken and dignified black Tory MP about racism.........

How is that relevant? She was challenging him on his support for a candidate who has made some rather disrespectful remarks ( I’m being kind - they were racist views) about Muslims, Blacks and others.

[paulrockliffe]

gooner1 said:

Mort7 said:

The highlight on QT for me was a shouty white Labour MP constantly lecturing a quietly spoken and dignified black Tory MP about racism.........

She's the type of MP that , hopefully, will persuade many voters not to
follow their usual tribal voting. That goes for MP's of all political parties.

She's my MP, the only way we'll be rid of her is if the local Party find a way to get her out. She's a parachuted-in Corbynite that put the local party's nose out of joint, the locals will always vote Labour, so I suspect we're stuck with her.

She campaigned against the Cons Candidate (who was at least born in the Constituency and with family still living here) criticising her for having a Surrey address. Laura got a local address on the ballot by obtaining the use of a flat I can see from where I'm sat now. She didn't stay in the flat and didn't live in the Constituency either, but was just less honest about it.

My main complaint though is that she's clearly as thick as two short planks and far too shouty to at least hide it.

[paulrockliffe]

nammynake said:

Mort7 said:

The highlight on QT for me was a shouty white Labour MP constantly lecturing a quietly spoken and dignified black Tory MP about racism.........

How is that relevant? She was challenging him on his support for a candidate who has made some rather disrespectful remarks ( I’m being kind - they were racist views) about Muslims, Blacks and others.

I haven't seen it, but don't you find that a tad hypocritical given she is a fully paid up Momentum Corbynite?

If we're using Boris Johnson's remarks as the line for racist/not racist then a person of principal would be sitting as an Independent rather than actively participating in the politics of Corbyn if those are the rules.

[nammynake]

paulrockliffe said:

I haven't seen it, but don't you find that a tad hypocritical given she is a fully paid up Momentum Corbynite?

If we're using Boris Johnson's remarks as the line for racist/not racist then a person of principal would be sitting as an Independent rather than actively participating in the politics of Corbyn if those are the rules.

I presume you are referring to antisemitism, of which there is no evidence linked to Corbyn. This has been done to death in other threads but people have clearly swallowed this nonsense perpetuated by the media. I do wonder how many people truly believe he is antisemitic (based on factual evidence) or whether it’s just the herd mentality and a convenient slur to help justify their support of the Conservatives and constant reference to the "far left".

[Mort7]

paulrockliffe said:

nammynake said:

Mort7 said:

The highlight on QT for me was a shouty white Labour MP constantly lecturing a quietly spoken and dignified black Tory MP about racism.........

How is that relevant? She was challenging him on his support for a candidate who has made some rather disrespectful remarks ( I’m being kind - they were racist views) about Muslims, Blacks and others.

I haven't seen it, but don't you find that a tad hypocritical given she is a fully paid up Momentum Corbynite?

Thank you. There is the hypocrisy of anti-semitism being brushed aside as somehow not being racist, the irony of a white politician berating a black politician about racism, and the contrast between someone who seems to believe that shouting and making accusations of 'isms' makes their views more valid, and someone who, despite clearly winning the argument on an intellectual level, is quietly dignified in their responses.

Johnson's burka comment, for example was not racist. He made an observation that wearing a burka gave the impression of someone looking out from inside a postbox, which it does. How is that any different to stating that someone wearing Klux Klux Klan robes looks like they're on their way to a fancy-dress Party dressed as a ghost, or that a nun's habit bears a passing resemblance to a Batman costume? In all cases these forms of dress are a sign of religious devotion (Muslim, Fundamentalist Christianity and Catholicism), and yet the last two wouldn't raise a murmur. Sheer hypocrisy from people who believe that equality only applies to them and those whom they support. And before someone jumps to a false conclusion - no, I am not in any way supporting the KKK. All religious fundamentalism is equally dangerous.

[Tuna]

Mort7 said:

Johnson's burka comment, for example was not racist. He made an observation that wearing a burka gave the impression of someone looking out from inside a postbox, which it does. How is that any different to stating that someone wearing Klux Klux Klan robes looks like they're on their way to a fancy-dress Party dressed as a ghost, or that a nun's habit bears a passing resemblance to a Batman costume? In all cases these forms of dress are a sign of religious devotion (Muslim, Fundamentalist Christianity and Catholicism), and yet the last two wouldn't raise a murmur. Sheer hypocrisy from people who believe that equality only applies to them and those whom they support. And before someone jumps to a false conclusion - no, I am not in any way supporting the KKK. All religious fundamentalism is equally dangerous.

indeed, the perpetuation of the 'racist' accusation as an established fact give a bit of a lie to people on here claiming that they are only concerned with Boris' cavalier use of language. They're more than happy to see people assume (clearly, not having read the article) that is was a racist attack - and the deafening silence as they all fail to clarify the misunderstanding speaks volumes.

[LurkingLurcher]

Pieman68 said:

If you want to be pedantic on this you will actually find that the dropped 't' is very common in many Northern accents and actually has a grammatical term - it's known as a glottal stop

I'm guilty as charged on it's use and don't consider myself lazy - growing up in the Labour heartlands it's how everybody speaks

As for what she has to say - whilst I believe there is some merit to better funding for poorer communities I don't believe in the magic money tree or the bottomless money pit. I'm very much a centrist with possible leaning slightly to the left. I am also probably in the minority in these areas in that I voted remain (although I was very much on the fence)

There is absolutely no way that I can bring myself to vote for the current Labour shambles and their drastic far left tendencies. I also find that the swing to the left has allowed the Conservatives to swing the other way and they no longer represent me either (I did vote for them in the last 3 elections as the alternatives are pretty frightening in my opinion)

The shambles that is our current political system needs a massive rethink and an overhaul. The country is massively polarized in so many different ways and seems to revolve solely around who can scream the loudest - be that remain/leave or left/right. I think that there are many thousands in the middle who just do not feel represented in any way by any of them - I suppose in some ways I sit in LibDem land but they simply don't feel like they represent me

Somebody needs to point out to these idiots across the board that uncertainty is the worst possible scenario from an economic point of view and to just make Brexit either happen or not

Im a lifelong inhabitant of County Durham, and would still say that dropping T's is lazy, we had pitmen in the family, not pi'men. Maybe its a more regional thing.😉 I agree with the rest of your post, but I believe it is imperative that brexit is delivered, revoking would leave a gaping chasm in democracy. Larry the cat gets my vote out of thecurrent shower.