US Debt ceiling crisis
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Mermaid

Original Poster:

21,492 posts

201 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
One of the biggest events going on right now - have not seen a thread specific for this threat affecting the world economy.



Mermaid

Original Poster:

21,492 posts

201 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
25 July 2011 Last updated at 18:24
IMF calls for US to raise debt ceiling and cut spending
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has called on US politicians to act urgently to raise the country's debt ceiling.
The IMF also called for a "comprehensive solution" to reduce the US deficit over the medium term.
Without this, IMF directors warned, the markets could lose confidence in Washington's ability to pay its debts.
The US risks default on its $14.3tn (£8.7tn) debt without a deal to raise the borrowing limit by 2 August.
"These risks would also have significant global repercussions, given the central role of US Treasury bonds in world financial markets," the IMF said.




Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

261 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
There was one, a couple of weeks ago:


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Put US Debt on Downgrade Review

Mermaid

Original Poster:

21,492 posts

201 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
It seems not much interest in either for everyone expects a deal to be cobbled together. It will be wake-up if they don't.

Democrats want to cut the $700bn expenditure on defence - Republicans say No No No.

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

261 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
It seems not much interest in either for everyone expects a deal to be cobbled together. It will be wake-up if they don't.

Democrats want to cut the $700bn expenditure on defence - Republicans say No No No.
Political posturing on both sides. You are correct, a deal will be struck.

WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

237 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
Mermaid said:
It seems not much interest in either for everyone expects a deal to be cobbled together. It will be wake-up if they don't.

Democrats want to cut the $700bn expenditure on defence - Republicans say No No No.
Political posturing on both sides. You are correct, a deal will be struck.
Presumably a bit of "pork barrel politics" going on behind closed doors?

Four Litre

2,174 posts

222 months

Monday 25th July 2011
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Just dragging it all out for a bit of drama... then "Look what we've done!!

Probably had it sorted weeks ago, just holding off putting pen to paper.

Thom987

3,185 posts

196 months

Monday 25th July 2011
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Where exactly do you borrow $16 trillion from? Or even how is this money created?
This makes our debt look small (Ireland)

NorthernBoy

12,642 posts

287 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
In large part it's borrowed from China, but also from people's pension savings.

williamp

20,445 posts

303 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
Thom987 said:
Where exactly do you borrow $16 trillion from? Or even how is this money created?
This makes our debt look small (Ireland)
This I dont get: whom do they owe the money too? What happens if they decide to not pay?

WhoseGeneration

4,090 posts

237 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
williamp said:
What happens if they decide to not pay?
Probable global financial meltdown.
Which is why they don't really care about the debt, assuming the rest of the World doesn't want to comtemplate this nightmare scenario.

EDLT

15,421 posts

236 months

Monday 25th July 2011
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Can someone explain how increasing the amount of debt they can get into helps to reduce their deficit?

Blue Oval84

5,397 posts

191 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
EDLT said:
Can someone explain how increasing the amount of debt they can get into helps to reduce their deficit?
I don't understand economics very well, but I THINK it's as follows.

You're earning £1000 per month but have to spend £1200 to make ends meet.

You have a plan to reduce the gap, by earning more money and cutting your spending, but it'll take time for it all to come together.

You're credit card is about to max out.

By increasing the credit limit you can buy yourself time to get into a position where you aren't spending more than you earn.

ETA- if you don't increase your credit limit then you run out of cash before your plan comes together and you go bankrupt.

The problem as I see it is that all most of the governments seem to have plans to do is get it to a level where instead of paying out £200 per month more than they earn, they'll only be paying out £100 per month more than they earn. i.e. eventually it'll go tits up.

However, I never studied economics and have only a fragile grasp of this situation so I'm sure someone will correct me!

skwdenyer

18,707 posts

270 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
EDLT said:
Can someone explain how increasing the amount of debt they can get into helps to reduce their deficit?
It doesn't. But, strangely, it could stop it increasing further (assuming the budget is balanced moving forward).

A default would trigger an automatic downgrading of US debt by credit rating agencies. That would in all likelihood lead to an increase in the cost of US borrowing moving forward, meaning higher interest rates to pay for out of an already-stretched budget. Furthermore, the way of credit ratings is that, by and large, no company or municipality can have a better credit rating than its country. In consequence, the cost of borrowing for many companies, individuals, states and cities would also increase, with a resultant increase in expenditure. This would reduce profits, reduce federal and state tax receipts, and so on.

So, even were the US to be able to produce a balanced budget moving forward, a default would mean it would have to pay more in interest, and receive less in taxes, than hitherto.

Rickeh

246 posts

245 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
Obama's making an address 9pm EDT (1am here) about the issue

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

261 months

Tuesday 26th July 2011
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NorthernBoy said:
In large part it's borrowed from China, but also from people's pension savings.
The majority of the money is borrowed from ourselves, not the Chinese.

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

261 months

Tuesday 26th July 2011
quotequote all
Rickeh said:
Obama's making an address 9pm EDT (1am here) about the issue
He has no solution yet. This is him using his position to better his position, as any President would. This is all about the 2012 election. The Senate and the House will come to a deal soon and the President wants to be seen as being involved. That is one reason he insists that any debt extension be good through at least 2013.

anonymous-user

84 months

Tuesday 26th July 2011
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
The majority of the money is borrowed from ourselves, not the Chinese.
I think i saw that "just" $1 trillion was borrowed from China.

Gokartmozart

1,671 posts

235 months

Tuesday 26th July 2011
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Bandit said:
I think i saw that "just" $1 trillion was borrowed from China.
Around 4.5 it total outside of the US (May 2011).

UK hold around 390 B$
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart...

Obama blames the Republicians or impasse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14286606

Bing o

15,184 posts

249 months

Tuesday 26th July 2011
quotequote all
Well, it certainly explains why they will be chasing down all of their citizens wherever they are in the world to pay the full amount of tax by using threats against non-US Banks, the charming little devils.