So the teachers end up with a £500k pension pot

[sussexjob]

And go on strike to protect (which is understandable)...could we end going down the pan like the greeks, these agreement were made years ago and now people are living longer we just can't afford this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8607277/P...

[Bing o]

Because you looked at this forum and you couldn't see any other threads about teacher's striking? Did you?

[Corsair7]

sussexjob said:

And go on strike to protect (which is understandable)...could we end going down the pan like the greeks, these agreement were made years ago and now people are living longer we just can't afford this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8607277/P...

This is misleading though. This is compared to Private sector pensions pots as they stand currently, after numerous market rape-age caused by the last few recessions and banking crisis.. We all know our Private Sector pension pots have been hammered by numerous mismanagement and abuse, and by poor investment decisons, greed by management and investment companies. You cant say 'it would cost this much' when our own goal posts have been moved constantly.

Private pension pots have been the victim of our poorly run economy and quite frankly fraudulant misuse of funds. Its not right to then compare what we are likely to get after all this with what a public sector pension is supposed to provide.

I agree that the public sector pensions are unmanagable going forward, but to compare them to private sector pensions that have been the victim over and over of the yo-yo economy just isnt right. Its getting very mush a case of "we've been fu**ed, now its only fair that you should be fu**ed".

[nightflight]

Bloated public sector, welfare state. Neither is sustainable. This is only the start of reality. Get used to it.

[Mr Whippy]

Pension promises have to be broken.

Whoever made those promises in the first place was an idiot too. The same people who thought endowment mortgages made sense I guess


The reality is, paying the promised amounts will bankrupt the country, leaving public service staff without ANY pension or ANY job.
The teachers, like everyone else in the whole country, have to take it on the chin. We are all in this big messy recession together, it's about time people started to realise it's sacrifice time all around because of mistakes made all-round over the last 15-20 years!

I can't believe the teachers, being rather intelligent people (hmmmm), can't grasp the situation and realise there is no choice.

Sounds harsh, but anyone who believes a promise set decades earlier is stupid. People talk about pensions that I will get in 35yrs time, but the whole world could be entirely different by then, and probably will be. You'd be foolish to put all your eggs in a notional promised pension!

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 30th June 10:05

[crankedup]

Corsair7 said:

sussexjob said:

And go on strike to protect (which is understandable)...could we end going down the pan like the greeks, these agreement were made years ago and now people are living longer we just can't afford this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8607277/P...

This is misleading though. This is compared to Private sector pensions pots as they stand currently, after numerous market rape-age caused by the last few recessions and banking crisis.. We all know our Private Sector pension pots have been hammered by numerous mismanagement and abuse, and by poor investment decisons, greed by management and investment companies. You cant say 'it would cost this much' when our own goal posts have been moved constantly.

Private pension pots have been the victim of our poorly run economy and quite frankly fraudulant misuse of funds. Its not right to then compare what we are likely to get after all this with what a public sector pension is supposed to provide.

I agree that the public sector pensions are unmanagable going forward, but to compare them to private sector pensions that have been the victim over and over of the yo-yo economy just isnt right. Its getting very mush a case of "we've been fu**ed, now its only fair that you should be fu**ed".

Oh my God!!!! thought I was the only one in town on this wave length. (Lord bless Maxwell and the like)
p.s. you didn't mention the 'pensions holidays' that also wacked the private pensions schemes.

[crankedup]

Mr Whippy said:

Pension promises have to be broken.

Whoever made those promises in the first place was an idiot too. The same people who thought endowment mortgages made sense I guess


The reality is, paying the promised amounts will bankrupt the country, leaving public service staff without ANY pension or ANY job.
The teachers, like everyone else in the whole country, have to take it on the chin. We are all in this big messy recession together, it's about time people started to realise it's sacrifice time all around because of mistakes made all-round over the last 15-20 years!

I can't believe the teachers, being rather intelligent people (hmmmm), can't grasp the situation and realise there is no choice.

Sounds harsh, but anyone who believes a promise set decades earlier is stupid. People talk about pensions that I will get in 35yrs time, but the whole world could be entirely different by then, and probably will be. You'd be foolish to put all your eggs in a notional promised pension!

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 30th June 10:05

Are you a Jehovah witness agree about eggs and basket but you have to make decisions in life for your future benefit. Its all very well using hindsight but decisions for today are what is required for tomorrow. I mean how many lost their shirt in the Dotcom bubble for instance. Apparently another chance to do the same is on the near horizon if you fancy a punt. The real pee take is that the ones guilty of lighting the blue touch paper are walking away with handsome pay offs. Thats the money men and some politicians.

[Mark Benson]

Corsair7 said:

I agree that the public sector pensions are unmanagable going forward, but to compare them to private sector pensions that have been the victim over and over of the yo-yo economy just isnt right. Its getting very mush a case of "we've been fu**ed, now its only fair that you should be fu**ed".

I think it's more a case of the pensions of a minority will affect the majority. Or "Your demands will f**k us and our children over for years to come, please be reasonable and moderate your demands for the greater good". All I hear back is "F**k you".

[RichyBoy]

If they went on strike when mr brown raided the private pensions I'd be with.

[Corsair7]

Mark Benson said:

I think it's more a case of the pensions of a minority will affect the majority. Or "Your demands will f**k us and our children over for years to come, please be reasonable and moderate your demands for the greater good". All I hear back is "F**k you".

I agree with what you say, dont get me wrong. But 6 years ago when everything was fekin rosy in the garden, when the was 'no boom and bust', when everyone in the city was making millions and everyone else was getting rich on properties and share prices, we (as a country) didnt give a $hit about all this. People in the Private Sector were too busy living the high life to care about how we fund future Public sector pensions. Thats why people in the Public Sector (who were not living in the same economic bubble of huge bonuses and double digit pay rises) who see CEO's and the like getting golden handshakes, huge payoffs and monsterous pension pots as the cause of this, so take the stand 'why should we suffer?'.

Theres a reason why therres so little support for the Public Sector on PH. Its because PH doesnt attract Public Sector people, because the majority of PubSector dont have the same intrest in cars that cost 2 or 3 years wages (plus). Those that have gotten fat off the Public Sector keep their heads well below the parapet.

[DSM2]

Corsair7 said:

Mark Benson said:

I think it's more a case of the pensions of a minority will affect the majority. Or "Your demands will f**k us and our children over for years to come, please be reasonable and moderate your demands for the greater good". All I hear back is "F**k you".

I agree with what you say, dont get me wrong. But 6 years ago when everything was fekin rosy in the garden, when the was 'no boom and bust', when everyone in the city was making millions and everyone else was getting rich on properties and share prices, we (as a country) didnt give a $hit about all this. People in the Private Sector were too busy living the high life to care about how we fund future Public sector pensions. Thats why people in the Public Sector (who were not living in the same economic bubble of huge bonuses and double digit pay rises) who see CEO's and the like getting golden handshakes, huge payoffs and monsterous pension pots as the cause of this, so take the stand 'why should we suffer?'.

Theres a reason why therres so little support for the Public Sector on PH. Its because PH doesnt attract Public Sector people, because the majority of PubSector dont have the same intrest in cars that cost 2 or 3 years wages (plus). Those that have gotten fat off the Public Sector keep their heads well below the parapet.

Before the financial crash, caused by poor Public Sector management, in terms of the government, and exasperated by the overblown Public Sector costs in general, the Private Sector may not have felt equal but they could manage to live to a similar standard as anyone else.

They have now suffered hugely, on account of the Public Sector inadequacies and faiiings and feel it is only right that the burden is shared with those who caused the problems in the first place, either wittingly or not.

Seems more than fair to me...........

BTW there are far more 'Fat Cats' in the Public than Private sector, receiving 'Monsterous' (sic) pensions and the like.

[Corsair7]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So its the highly paid consultants that are on strike then is it? Get real. Its the oiks that are stiking, not the consultants.

[rsv gone!]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Of course. The teachers' houses were appreciating as fast as everybody else's. Were public servants the only ones who didn't re-mortgage to buy nice kitchens, cars, holidays?

[Corsair7]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

How many consultants and retired PS workers do you think are on strike? Fek all I would suggest. Its the rank and file that are striking, not the management/consultant level.

You seem to think I'm defending any of this or that I agree with it - I dont. But this is how the rank and file see the cuts as affecting them and the reasons why they should fight back.

[Mark Benson]

Corsair7 said:

Mark Benson said:

I think it's more a case of the pensions of a minority will affect the majority. Or "Your demands will f**k us and our children over for years to come, please be reasonable and moderate your demands for the greater good". All I hear back is "F**k you".

Thats why people in the Public Sector (who were not living in the same economic bubble of huge bonuses and double digit pay rises) who see CEO's and the like getting golden handshakes, huge payoffs and monsterous pension pots as the cause of this, so take the stand 'why should we suffer?'

But they were. Under the last government, in the time period you're talking about, the wages of public sector workers rose, then on average went beyond those of the private sector. At the same time, the number of people employed increased also - the boom enjoyed by the private sector was being used as an excuse to increase the public sector by a government that saw a large state as a positive step. The problem is, the real cost of these rises isn't only borne by the tax payers at the time, there is a commitment made by the government on the backs of future tax payers also.

The old truth that public sector wagers were poor, but at least you had a long and happy retirement has been supplanted by a new truth - that public sector workers on the whole enjoy comparative wages to their private sector couterparts, but have retained the inflated pensions of old to boot - they are troughing their cake now, and expect to continue doing so until they shuffle off this mortal coil.

That's why I object to all of this - I value the public sector, but at the moment they seem to think they are immune to the vagaries of the outside world. They are not - they benefited in the boom, they just don't want to share in the bust.

[TankRizzo]

You simply cannot have a large public sector financially shielded by the State from economic depression. That is partly how Greece ended up where they are.

[Mr Whippy]

crankedup said:

Mr Whippy said:

Pension promises have to be broken.

Whoever made those promises in the first place was an idiot too. The same people who thought endowment mortgages made sense I guess


The reality is, paying the promised amounts will bankrupt the country, leaving public service staff without ANY pension or ANY job.
The teachers, like everyone else in the whole country, have to take it on the chin. We are all in this big messy recession together, it's about time people started to realise it's sacrifice time all around because of mistakes made all-round over the last 15-20 years!

I can't believe the teachers, being rather intelligent people (hmmmm), can't grasp the situation and realise there is no choice.

Sounds harsh, but anyone who believes a promise set decades earlier is stupid. People talk about pensions that I will get in 35yrs time, but the whole world could be entirely different by then, and probably will be. You'd be foolish to put all your eggs in a notional promised pension!

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Thursday 30th June 10:05

Are you a Jehovah witness agree about eggs and basket but you have to make decisions in life for your future benefit. Its all very well using hindsight but decisions for today are what is required for tomorrow. I mean how many lost their shirt in the Dotcom bubble for instance. Apparently another chance to do the same is on the near horizon if you fancy a punt. The real pee take is that the ones guilty of lighting the blue touch paper are walking away with handsome pay offs. Thats the money men and some politicians.

It's harsh, and not so constructive, but what solution is there. There is no money. Borrowing more isn't really an option.

The mess is all greed based. We want to be wealthy, the politicians and money men were doing it all for our benefit too (pensions, investment returns etc)...

We all have to pay, and having teachers essentially taking the country hostage isn't going to achieve anything.

If we pay them, then we have to pay everyone else. The £ becomes worth about 10x less as we print the money to pay them what they want in retirement in 'numbers' terms, despite everything costing about 10x more in the process.

In any case, we are screwed. I don't blame them for being angry, but doing what they are doing is ultimately screwing up an already fragile country even more!

Dave

[fss111]

They just don't get that there is no money..

[Mr Whippy]

Any that have gone on strike should be checked to see if they are intelligent enough to be teaching our young people. Last thing we need is kids who are taught by idiots if we want to be a strong economy moving forward!

Any of those striking who are teaching economics or business studies should get an instant sacking

Dave

[Corsair7]

Mr Whippy said:

Any that have gone on strike should be checked to see if they are intelligent enough to be teaching our young people. Last thing we need is kids who are taught by idiots if we want to be a strong economy moving forward!

Any of those striking who are teaching economics or business studies should get an instant sacking

Dave

Perhaps the people who agreed to these fincial promises in the first place should be the ones getting an education? The economy is not where it is right now due to the teachers in the comprehensives.....