Discussion
Are we, as a society, capable of 'sub-contracting' care?
By this, I mean, can we have any expectation that people who are not related by blood (or subsequent marriage etc.), can properly look after others?
I'm fundamentally an anarcho-capitalist, but I think that we have reached an evidential stage which takes this issue beyond econo-political positioning, i.e. I don't see the public or private sector being much better or worse than the other in the provision of care.
So, whether it's children, adults with special needs or the elderly, I'm having difficulty in seeing that it's possible to deliver consistently high quality care without having some kind of genetic motive between the carer and caree. And, of course, not everyone has genetically-linked carers to hand.
And, in some ways, this conundrum troubles me even more because, in the case of children, I actually think that that the accepted policy towards children in vulnerable families, i.e. that we try and fix the family, is actually the wrong one. Personally, I'd support a move to removing children from failing families as I think the opportunities for properly and successfully influencing parents are few. But what to do with those children? A succession of foster placements and care homes has demonstrated itself, generally, as no answer.
I'd be interested in hearing how other view the subject of social care as, for me, it's a significant social, and therefore political, conundrum.
By this, I mean, can we have any expectation that people who are not related by blood (or subsequent marriage etc.), can properly look after others?
I'm fundamentally an anarcho-capitalist, but I think that we have reached an evidential stage which takes this issue beyond econo-political positioning, i.e. I don't see the public or private sector being much better or worse than the other in the provision of care.
So, whether it's children, adults with special needs or the elderly, I'm having difficulty in seeing that it's possible to deliver consistently high quality care without having some kind of genetic motive between the carer and caree. And, of course, not everyone has genetically-linked carers to hand.
And, in some ways, this conundrum troubles me even more because, in the case of children, I actually think that that the accepted policy towards children in vulnerable families, i.e. that we try and fix the family, is actually the wrong one. Personally, I'd support a move to removing children from failing families as I think the opportunities for properly and successfully influencing parents are few. But what to do with those children? A succession of foster placements and care homes has demonstrated itself, generally, as no answer.
I'd be interested in hearing how other view the subject of social care as, for me, it's a significant social, and therefore political, conundrum.
i think increasingly care is becoming more and more specialised.
my nephew has cerebal palsy so upto a certain age he was always under the care of my sister however has he is getting older he is being taken to school and being taken care of there. the attention they can give to a child of his nature and his development exceeds the expertise and care my sister can.
saying that with old folks i guess its a mix bag. i'd never put my parents in an old folks but i'm sure some with more serious old-age related illnesses can be more of a handful to manage.
my nephew has cerebal palsy so upto a certain age he was always under the care of my sister however has he is getting older he is being taken to school and being taken care of there. the attention they can give to a child of his nature and his development exceeds the expertise and care my sister can.
saying that with old folks i guess its a mix bag. i'd never put my parents in an old folks but i'm sure some with more serious old-age related illnesses can be more of a handful to manage.
Eric Mc said:
Yep - a fractured society which puts the needs of the individual first is bound to end up with the state having to carry the burden of looking after inconveniences (like looking after elderly relatives).
Its not always that simple Eric. My mother in law looked after her mother for a couple of years, the MiL had retired early and was around full-time. As her mother's dementia got worse she simply didn't have the skills to look after her properly. I think a lot of the problem is that people are being kept alive to the extent where they have specialised caring needs that untrained people will struggle with.wolves_wanderer said:
Eric Mc said:
Yep - a fractured society which puts the needs of the individual first is bound to end up with the state having to carry the burden of looking after inconveniences (like looking after elderly relatives).
Its not always that simple Eric. My mother in law looked after her mother for a couple of years, the MiL had retired early and was around full-time. As her mother's dementia got worse she simply didn't have the skills to look after her properly. I think a lot of the problem is that people are being kept alive to the extent where they have specialised caring needs that untrained people will struggle with.Another problem is that families do not live geographically close to each other anymore - which is just as much the fault of older people who head off to different areas in retirement - and then find themselves isolated when illness and infirmity strike.
Money is rarely motivation enough to 'care'. Neither is familiar ties the answer. For blood loyalty, often read obligation, circumstance, personal sacrifice and necessity. Analyse it to death with which ever flavour political dogma you aspire to hold as your diety and it still stacks up the same; We cost money to look after.
Perhaps the best we can hope for is that when it is our time at the departure gates of death, our demise is not prolonged over years or that those surrounding us, paid or unpaid actually support us at our time of need. The rest is just hot air and political smegma upon politicians crusted heads.
Perhaps the best we can hope for is that when it is our time at the departure gates of death, our demise is not prolonged over years or that those surrounding us, paid or unpaid actually support us at our time of need. The rest is just hot air and political smegma upon politicians crusted heads.
On an individual level I firmly believe that there are many many people who are capable of giving exceptional levels of care to anyone without any blood ties.
It's at institutional level where things 'break down'. Whether private or public, it eventually boils down to economics. It averages out the work of exceptional individuals to the most efficient level which is never the ideal level for any service user.
It's at institutional level where things 'break down'. Whether private or public, it eventually boils down to economics. It averages out the work of exceptional individuals to the most efficient level which is never the ideal level for any service user.
Stevenj214 said:
It's at institutional level where things 'break down'. Whether private or public, it eventually boils down to economics. It averages out the work of exceptional individuals to the most efficient level which is never the ideal level for any service user.
Indeed. But before 'contracting out' happened, we had the most appalling state-owned institutions. Then we introduced the 'profit motive' and the lowest common denominator service level you describe came forward.So what should we do with our vulnerable children, adults and elderly?
V8mate said:
Stevenj214 said:
It's at institutional level where things 'break down'. Whether private or public, it eventually boils down to economics. It averages out the work of exceptional individuals to the most efficient level which is never the ideal level for any service user.
Indeed. But before 'contracting out' happened, we had the most appalling state-owned institutions. Then we introduced the 'profit motive' and the lowest common denominator service level you describe came forward.So what should we do with our vulnerable children, adults and elderly?
V8mate said:
So what should we do with our vulnerable children, adults and elderly?
On the recent panorama programme about Winterbourne View Care Home, I'm sure they mentioned a cost of around £150k per user per year (assuming the home was full).Now I'm no expert, but if I had responsibility for someone who needed full time care and I was offered that £150k as cash to spend as I saw fit to maintain the highest level of living standard possible for that person, I'm sure I could do a better job completely tailored to their needs.
I have no idea what motivates someone to want to care for others, my daughter works several hours a week as volunteer for a group which helps mentally and physically disabled people aged 13 - 24. Without her and other volunteers the group wouldn't exist, she has also undertaken a sign lanuage course at her own expense to assist her in communicating with some.
Having both observed her supporting these young people and asking her why she does it, it's clear she gets an immense amount of joy from it, she always comes home in a really good mood, she tells me they ask for nothing have no expectations but give everything. Maybe it also helps her maintain perspective on how fortunate she is.
She also wants to be a Social Worker, not for the money but just because she feels she has something to offer and being valued seems to be important to her.
Having both observed her supporting these young people and asking her why she does it, it's clear she gets an immense amount of joy from it, she always comes home in a really good mood, she tells me they ask for nothing have no expectations but give everything. Maybe it also helps her maintain perspective on how fortunate she is.
She also wants to be a Social Worker, not for the money but just because she feels she has something to offer and being valued seems to be important to her.
It's quite frightening in a way, that we are suffering both over population and lifestyles/medicine that keep people alive longer than they ever have before. Victims of our own success, I suppose.
I'm not sure our natural instincts or the social/financial systems we live by are set up to deal with such a problem in an easy way.
I'm not sure our natural instincts or the social/financial systems we live by are set up to deal with such a problem in an easy way.
Justayellowbadge said:
V8mate said:
drivin_me_nuts said:
Look after them?
No flies on you.10 Pence Short said:
It's quite frightening in a way, that we are suffering both over population and lifestyles/medicine that keep people alive longer than they ever have before. Victims of our own success, I suppose.
I'm not sure our natural instincts or the social/financial systems we live by are set up to deal with such a problem in an easy way.
ThisI'm not sure our natural instincts or the social/financial systems we live by are set up to deal with such a problem in an easy way.
The fundamental issue is we are living longer, but especially with mental issues (dementia) care can be a tough job.
Apart from a more self obsessed society the other issue is of course mobility. Rare now to see families living in one area from cradle to grave across many generations.
I think more people would care in the home if they got some or even any support and help.
If you can imagine working 16 hours a day cooking, cleaning, bathing, toileting, entertaining, performing physiotherapy and ensuring a social life for your charge all while your own standard of living takes a nose dive then you can appreciate why some people pack them off.
I wouldn't pack them off myself but I can see why some snap while trying to do all of the above (and much more) with zero help.
If you can imagine working 16 hours a day cooking, cleaning, bathing, toileting, entertaining, performing physiotherapy and ensuring a social life for your charge all while your own standard of living takes a nose dive then you can appreciate why some people pack them off.
I wouldn't pack them off myself but I can see why some snap while trying to do all of the above (and much more) with zero help.
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