Traffic light cameras in FL

[ErnestM]

...apparently make citations issued by police uncostitutional...

http://www.local10.com/news/28113135/detail.html

Rather than ruling that the cameras themselves are unconstitutional, the judge is saying that under the equal protection clause, the police issued citations are. Nice. It will force the cities that deploy these things to actually choose between revenue or safety. Answers on a postcard regarding which they will choose

[elster]

Whoever thought they could use 2 different systems must be insane.

How did they ever think that would work.

I would go for the cash cow cameras, over the police as I am guessing a camera at all the junctions are cheaper than a policeman at every junction.

I don't quite understand the need for them, is there really that many people who don't stop and wait at a red light?

[Matt Harper]

Running red lights is a massive problem in this state and particularly bad in Orlando, as Ernest will no doubt testify. Currently around 9000 citations per month.
The key issue in this is that if the cameras are operational and the LEO tickets the offender, he gets busted twice. Personally, I think this is a wonderful concept.
I'm all for the city generating revenue from aholes, who's insanity might kill me or someone I care about.

[elster]

Why though?

I know I am quite lucky in the UK the people who adhere to the rules of the road are a significant majority for reasons of safety and traffic flow. So why do people jump red lights?

[ErnestM]

The amazing (from a legal perspective) thing to me was that the judge made the officer's citations unconstitutional. I guess that making the camera penalties uncostitutional was a no go, though, because they were only being assesed as a penalty fee and not a legal infraction. I think that, legally speaking, the judge was just saying "pick one". Of course, if the camera penalties also included a legal infraction, then due process comes into play (as well as lack of ability to confront accuser).

I am all for proper enforcement of traffic laws. The lives that may be saved might be my kids. I would, however, much rather them get rid of the cameras if it is going to impact the ability to assess points and get the bad drivers off the roads.

[Matt Harper]

elster said:

Why though?

I know I am quite lucky in the UK the people who adhere to the rules of the road are a significant majority for reasons of safety and traffic flow. So why do people jump red lights?

It is probably significant that running a red is classed as a misdemeanor, so is often perceived to be only a minor indescretion, rather than the potentially homicidal act it really is. Until recently (and I'm talking about Orlando now), the number of traffic light citations, compared to the number of violations, was disproportionate, because the cops needed to witness you doing it, in order to issue a ticket. That changed a bit with the installation of camera equipment at intersections that are notorious for red light violations. Needless to say, there is a bunch of vocal nutters who feel that being photographed comitting a potentially murderous act impinges on the civil liberties of the lunatic driver.

Why else? The lights stay red for quite a long time at busy intersections and some people are disinclined to wait, like the rest of us. It's mainly people trying to beat the yellow. Nobody, except tourists, stops on the yellow - and this is why so many tourists get rear-ended, because the locals expect you to accelerate on a yellow, rather than brake. Consequently, people just push it and push it - some thinking that if the light only recently went red, it's probably OK to blaze through it. The really scary part is that these morons aren't trickling through the red, they are blasting through, foot to the boards. If at the front of the line when the light goes green, you really need to check that there is nobody storming through the intersection in a two ton pick-up, before you move forward.

To Ernest's point - I think it's just a matter of manpower (or lack of it). I agree that the heavier penalties of LEO written citations (still nowhere near heavy enough, in my view) are a stronger incentive to obey the rules, but local agencies just don't have the bodies to make a significant impact on what is ingrained behavior.

Camera enforcement has the potential to lead to the slippery slope that UK now has to live with (cameras everywhere), but in the case of running red lights, the more psychos they can repeatedly kick in the wallet, the better - and the safer it will be for the rest of us.