Public services-outsource to India
Discussion
Birmingham is to outsource some of its back office work to India, yet another call centre abroad. It means 100 + job losses here = 100 + people will claim benefits money. Tax payers in Birmingham perhaps, for example, requesting a visit from the pest control department will be diverted to India with their telephone call. Is this the first of many more 'back room staff' jobs migrating to India.
As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, s
te this.
As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, s
te this.So, 100 people are losing their jobs and will be entitled to all manner of benefits paid for by the UK taxpayer.
100 people who previously paid taxes and NI and all the rest and who spent their money in the UK thus paying more taxes with VAT and the like and providing income to many other UK businesses.
Now, Birmingham council will spend what I suspect will only be a little less in providing these services. Meanwhile all the wages paid will be spent in India (obviously) with no direct benefit to the UK.
I do hope the unions are all over this like a rash and try and put a stop to this as I reackon it's the thin end of the wedge.
And now cue union bashing, public sector bashing and labour bashing....
100 people who previously paid taxes and NI and all the rest and who spent their money in the UK thus paying more taxes with VAT and the like and providing income to many other UK businesses.
Now, Birmingham council will spend what I suspect will only be a little less in providing these services. Meanwhile all the wages paid will be spent in India (obviously) with no direct benefit to the UK.
I do hope the unions are all over this like a rash and try and put a stop to this as I reackon it's the thin end of the wedge.
And now cue union bashing, public sector bashing and labour bashing....
crankedup said:
Birmingham is to outsource some of its back office work to India, yet another call centre abroad. It means 100 + job losses here = 100 + people will claim benefits money. Tax payers in Birmingham perhaps, for example, requesting a visit from the pest control department will be diverted to India with their telephone call. Is this the first of many more 'back room staff' jobs migrating to India.
As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, ste this.
My understanding was that these roles were IT support roles. I'm pretty sure that if you need pest control then you will call the environmental health department who will dispatch a man with a stick to rid you of your pest. If you work in environmental health and your computer goes tits up then you will have to call India to get it fixed. I'm amazed this isn't happening already, most big firms have outsourced their IT support to India years ago (my wife was made redundant from just such a firm). I'm also pretty sure that Service Birmingham have committed to providing an additional 800 jobs in the Birmingham area over the next 5 years. As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, s
te this.valiant1 said:
So, 100 people are losing their jobs and will be entitled to all manner of benefits paid for by the UK taxpayer.
100 people who previously paid taxes and NI and all the rest and who spent their money in the UK thus paying more taxes with VAT and the like and providing income to many other UK businesses.
The problem is, being in the public sector means that all that tax and NI they paid was/is entirely funded out of taxes already wrung out of other tax-payers. I imagine most will be able to get private sector jobs if they are any good at their job and start paying the same tax and NI, but this time out of newly generated money rather than recycled tax which is far better for the economy as a whole.100 people who previously paid taxes and NI and all the rest and who spent their money in the UK thus paying more taxes with VAT and the like and providing income to many other UK businesses.
valiant1 said:
Now, Birmingham council will spend what I suspect will only be a little less in providing these services. Meanwhile all the wages paid will be spent in India (obviously) with no direct benefit to the UK.
I'd certainly want to see the figures on exactly how much this saves before I'd support it.valiant1 said:
I do hope the unions are all over this like a rash and try and put a stop to this as I reackon it's the thin end of the wedge.
1979 was the last time the unions ran the country, all they run now is the labour party. Let's leave these decisions to the democratically elected representatives of the people shall we?I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of outsourcing public services to India. In principle, I think one of the primary responsibilities for should be to provide value for money in everything they do.
However....
I think public sector value for money has to be calculated in its entirety. It's OK for private sector shareholder value to extend - in a case like this - no further than the redundancy payments, in the public sector I feel that Birmingham needs to show that this proposal provides value for money including benefit claims also made on the national purse.
If the council can demonstrate that even after paying redundancy, unemployment benefits and any other taxpayer costs this initiative is still going to deliver better value over, say, 3 years, then I would start to argue that they have a duty to do it.
Unfortunately we have many people in our economy who, through no real fault of their own, find themselves in a position where they have a commodity skill set that can and is undercut by people in emerging economies. It's also a particularly British problem, as there are just so many more English speaking emerging economies with decent telecoms infrastructures than any other Western country with the possible exception of Spain.
However....
I think public sector value for money has to be calculated in its entirety. It's OK for private sector shareholder value to extend - in a case like this - no further than the redundancy payments, in the public sector I feel that Birmingham needs to show that this proposal provides value for money including benefit claims also made on the national purse.
If the council can demonstrate that even after paying redundancy, unemployment benefits and any other taxpayer costs this initiative is still going to deliver better value over, say, 3 years, then I would start to argue that they have a duty to do it.
Unfortunately we have many people in our economy who, through no real fault of their own, find themselves in a position where they have a commodity skill set that can and is undercut by people in emerging economies. It's also a particularly British problem, as there are just so many more English speaking emerging economies with decent telecoms infrastructures than any other Western country with the possible exception of Spain.
MilnerR said:
crankedup said:
Birmingham is to outsource some of its back office work to India, yet another call centre abroad. It means 100 + job losses here = 100 + people will claim benefits money. Tax payers in Birmingham perhaps, for example, requesting a visit from the pest control department will be diverted to India with their telephone call. Is this the first of many more 'back room staff' jobs migrating to India.
As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, ste this.
My understanding was that these roles were IT support roles. I'm pretty sure that if you need pest control then you will call the environmental health department who will dispatch a man with a stick to rid you of your pest. If you work in environmental health and your computer goes tits up then you will have to call India to get it fixed. I'm amazed this isn't happening already, most big firms have outsourced their IT support to India years ago (my wife was made redundant from just such a firm). I'm also pretty sure that Service Birmingham have committed to providing an additional 800 jobs in the Birmingham area over the next 5 years. As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, s
te this.pp
Kermit power said:
Of course, if it's anything like the Indian outsourced IT support we have at work, you'd need to go through quite a complex formula to factor in productivity losses from the increase in time it takes for people to explain their problem! 
Very true, not just that but two wintel teams I deal with on average have to have four cracks at a job before they get it right. Remedy ping pong is a fun game over a matter of weeks
Some users I speak to simply won't log issues for fear of how much the Indian wintel teams will frack over their account next time.
Ya pays ya money and ya teks ya chances
Pickled Piper said:
MilnerR said:
crankedup said:
Birmingham is to outsource some of its back office work to India, yet another call centre abroad. It means 100 + job losses here = 100 + people will claim benefits money. Tax payers in Birmingham perhaps, for example, requesting a visit from the pest control department will be diverted to India with their telephone call. Is this the first of many more 'back room staff' jobs migrating to India.
As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, ste this.
My understanding was that these roles were IT support roles. I'm pretty sure that if you need pest control then you will call the environmental health department who will dispatch a man with a stick to rid you of your pest. If you work in environmental health and your computer goes tits up then you will have to call India to get it fixed. I'm amazed this isn't happening already, most big firms have outsourced their IT support to India years ago (my wife was made redundant from just such a firm). I'm also pretty sure that Service Birmingham have committed to providing an additional 800 jobs in the Birmingham area over the next 5 years.As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, s
te this.pp
if you mention this^^^
you can't have another fine dig at blue ties
however
giving Government (MY) money in Aid to India-stan is not an idea I support either
The point here is that private firms have been dismantling their IS/IT capabilities for years and shipping it off-shore to save money (whether it is a saving is another argument).
Anyway, last July my wife was made redundant and I am currently applying for my own job (find out later this month), so I don't have a lot of sympathy. Maybe when I know I can pay my mortgage I'll spare a thought for the hard done by public sector worker who's been forced to put up with what most of us have had to put up with our entire working lives!
Life isn't fair! Get used to it!
Anyway, last July my wife was made redundant and I am currently applying for my own job (find out later this month), so I don't have a lot of sympathy. Maybe when I know I can pay my mortgage I'll spare a thought for the hard done by public sector worker who's been forced to put up with what most of us have had to put up with our entire working lives!
Life isn't fair! Get used to it!
crankedup said:
Birmingham is to outsource some of its back office work to India, yet another call centre abroad. It means 100 + job losses here = 100 + people will claim benefits money. Tax payers in Birmingham perhaps, for example, requesting a visit from the pest control department will be diverted to India with their telephone call. Is this the first of many more 'back room staff' jobs migrating to India.
As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, ste this.
Dont worry it will all sort itself out in a few years after the environmental rules has regulated/taxed industry out of bussiness here and the EU has sucked us dry to pay for failed eu members economys and its gravy train... india and china will be the rich countrys and they will outsource IT jobs/call centres to britain !!!!As always its the small fry being hit first with job losses, in this case those earning more than 21k salary. I would like to see some of the higher earning suits to see cuts, but to see jobs go to India, and then give India not just our fking jobs but our tax money in the form of overseas aid, s
te this.Edited by powerstroke on Thursday 2nd June 23:03
Ah yes, but that will never happen, as we used to have an empire, and we invented the industrial revolution dontchaknow? We don't need any kind of government policies to keep our economy strong, it will just miraculously happen, even if all of our IT and call centre work is offshore, our energy comes from the EU, and we keep giving billions away in aid to 3rd world stholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).
What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco bks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't.
The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
tholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco b
ks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't. The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
Bing o said:
Ah yes, but that will never happen, as we used to have an empire, and we invented the industrial revolution dontchaknow? We don't need any kind of government policies to keep our economy strong, it will just miraculously happen, even if all of our IT and call centre work is offshore, our energy comes from the EU, and we keep giving billions away in aid to 3rd world stholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).
What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco bks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't.
The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
We realy needed another labour goverment to finish the economy off so we could have started with a clean sheet, at the moment the economy is like an engine thats suffered a cooling problem lost water and over heated the consevatives have mended the leak and refilled it but there is still the worry that things arent quite right maybe the head gasket will go or the head is cracked, another labour term would have been like running it flat out down the motorway with no water untill it stopped... would have totaly melted and siezed it so a new engine would have been the only option .....sadly a lot of voters will blame the torys if the gasket blows not the people who let the leak happen in the first place..tholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco b
ks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't. The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
Edited by powerstroke on Friday 3rd June 08:26
Bing o said:
Ah yes, but that will never happen, as we used to have an empire, and we invented the industrial revolution dontchaknow? We don't need any kind of government policies to keep our economy strong, it will just miraculously happen, even if all of our IT and call centre work is offshore, our energy comes from the EU, and we keep giving billions away in aid to 3rd world stholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).
What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco bks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't.
The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
tholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco b
ks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't. The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
Hail.
Just hail.
Bing o said:
Ah yes, but that will never happen, as we used to have an empire, and we invented the industrial revolution dontchaknow? We don't need any kind of government policies to keep our economy strong, it will just miraculously happen, even if all of our IT and call centre work is offshore, our energy comes from the EU, and we keep giving billions away in aid to 3rd world stholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).
What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco bks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't.
The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
Every now and then a post comes along which cuts right to the chase.tholes like Pakistan (and Birmingham).What we really need is for someone to have the balls to stand up and put an end to the welfare state. We simply aren't wealthy enough for it any more. Stop handing out free houses to single mums and immigrants. Don't breed if you can't support your child yourself. Don't come here if you can't house yourself. Cut tax to 20% maximum, and give corporate tax breaks to encourage SMEs. Have an energy policy based on sustainability of supply and cost rather than Eco b
ks. Tell the EU to fk off. Ditto the HRA and ECHR. Give free uni back to our scientists and engineers, and tax companies that outsource work, but give breaks to those that don't. The path we are on currently will see us as serfs to the Indians and Chinese, quaint holiday destinations to look at a long departed civilisation, and maybe in Germany's case still a manufacturer of fine cars.
Just two questions - what will you be naming your party and what colour tie will you choose?
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