Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
Mr Penguin said:
rscott said:
Another example of their failure to vet their candidates properly then?
Checking that your candidates actually support your party really is step zero of candidate selection.This latest one was a former Tory who stood for a council post as a Tory before. If you do not assume foul play it would be reasonable that they would then switch to Reform.
The same thing happened in Williamson's seat.
ATG said:
LimmerickLad said:
eharding said:
redrabbit said:
LimmerickLad said:
You need to clear the site before you can rebuild with something newer and better suited to the 21st early 20th century.
Ftfy.I saw the speech from the asian Reform fella - was pretty good actually, and in line with "taking back control" as you would expect from Reform. The audience seemed to love it and comments on the video seemed positive too. Apparently he's a big donor to the party as well.
Question I have is - do the majority of Reform members and voters accept immigrants that came here a while back and have assimilated, or is this like a one off? They'd get far more people in their camp if they didn't seem to racist and anti muslim, but this dude was muslim and obviously not white, so i'd like to understand what i'm missing in this picture.
Question I have is - do the majority of Reform members and voters accept immigrants that came here a while back and have assimilated, or is this like a one off? They'd get far more people in their camp if they didn't seem to racist and anti muslim, but this dude was muslim and obviously not white, so i'd like to understand what i'm missing in this picture.
OddCat said:
Vasco said:
Do the majority of people living in, say, Africa have a racism issue if quite a few white skins start to live in their area ??
Perhaps ask a few white farmers in Zimbabwe ? OddCat said:
Vasco said:
Do the majority of people living in, say, Africa have a racism issue if quite a few white skins start to live in their area ??
Perhaps ask a few white farmers in Zimbabwe ? 
OzzyR1 said:
If there was proportional representation in the UK electoral system, I reckon Reform might get 10% or more of seats.
I wouldn't vote for them, dislike their ideology but think a proportion of folks who previously voted Labour or Tory (particularly the latter) might put their tick in that box.
They aren't racist loons, just people fed up with the broken promises from the Conservatives and Labour over the last 3-4 decades and want to see something different.
It's a protest vote in the UK at present, but people will only take so much; France has made a statement in the first round of elections today.
What were all these broken promises by Labour? From where I stand, they did pretty much everything they promised, from massively improving the NHS to presiding over a period of significant prosperity.I wouldn't vote for them, dislike their ideology but think a proportion of folks who previously voted Labour or Tory (particularly the latter) might put their tick in that box.
They aren't racist loons, just people fed up with the broken promises from the Conservatives and Labour over the last 3-4 decades and want to see something different.
It's a protest vote in the UK at present, but people will only take so much; France has made a statement in the first round of elections today.
Blair is tarred by participation in a divisive war, whilst Brown is (wrongly IMHO) blamed for the GFC.
Randy Winkman said:
I'm never quite sure what the main point of showing there are racist people all over the world is. Is there a point?
The point is to normalise racism. To make it acceptable... But only the right kind of racism, they still want racism to be perceived as bad when Reform and their supporters want to use the accusations to shut down criticism against them. 
hstewie said:skwdenyer said:
What were all these broken promises by Labour? From where I stand, they did pretty much everything they promised, from massively improving the NHS to presiding over a period of significant prosperity.
A lot of the 'but Labour..." stuff are articles of faith which don't really stand up to scrutiny. It's part of the new idiocracy which distils everything down to internet meme level so that facts become irrelevant and decisions can be made based on feeling and prejudice.s1962a said:
I saw the speech from the asian Reform fella - was pretty good actually, and in line with "taking back control" as you would expect from Reform. The audience seemed to love it and comments on the video seemed positive too. Apparently he's a big donor to the party as well.
Question I have is - do the majority of Reform members and voters accept immigrants that came here a while back and have assimilated, or is this like a one off? They'd get far more people in their camp if they didn't seem to racist and anti muslim, but this dude was muslim and obviously not white, so i'd like to understand what i'm missing in this picture.
One of the issues plaguing the discussion around immigration is that not many seem to separate the individual from the the affect of the group demographic.Question I have is - do the majority of Reform members and voters accept immigrants that came here a while back and have assimilated, or is this like a one off? They'd get far more people in their camp if they didn't seem to racist and anti muslim, but this dude was muslim and obviously not white, so i'd like to understand what i'm missing in this picture.
One can have no issue with immigrants from different cultures on a personal level but multiply that by X and it's a totally different discussion due to the impact on our society/culture as a whole.
The problem reasonable people have with mass immigration is the detrimental effect the group as a whole is having. This is self evidentially not a racist viewpoint but it's twisted to mean you have a problem with people on a personal level or based on skin colour...and hence racist.
They are separate things entirely...
...and this where the disconnect in understanding comes from I think. You have to separate the individual from impact of the group.
Otherwise you're having a discussion about racist discrimination...
smn159 said:
A lot of the 'but Labour..." stuff are articles of faith which don't really stand up to scrutiny. It's part of the new idiocracy which distils everything down to internet meme level so that facts become irrelevant and decisions can be made based on feeling and prejudice.
It’s also a case of repeat a lie often enough and it morphs into fact, see Boris, Nigel and Donald for details. As someone who’s business was directly affected by the GFC it always irritates me to read that it was Brown’s fault, along with the complete lack of recognition for Darling’s role in cleaning up the mess. I suppose someone will be along in a minute to remind us about the note Liam Byrne left for Osborne, yawn.
skwdenyer said:
OzzyR1 said:
If there was proportional representation in the UK electoral system, I reckon Reform might get 10% or more of seats.
I wouldn't vote for them, dislike their ideology but think a proportion of folks who previously voted Labour or Tory (particularly the latter) might put their tick in that box.
They aren't racist loons, just people fed up with the broken promises from the Conservatives and Labour over the last 3-4 decades and want to see something different.
It's a protest vote in the UK at present, but people will only take so much; France has made a statement in the first round of elections today.
What were all these broken promises by Labour? From where I stand, they did pretty much everything they promised, from massively improving the NHS to presiding over a period of significant prosperity.I wouldn't vote for them, dislike their ideology but think a proportion of folks who previously voted Labour or Tory (particularly the latter) might put their tick in that box.
They aren't racist loons, just people fed up with the broken promises from the Conservatives and Labour over the last 3-4 decades and want to see something different.
It's a protest vote in the UK at present, but people will only take so much; France has made a statement in the first round of elections today.
Blair is tarred by participation in a divisive war, whilst Brown is (wrongly IMHO) blamed for the GFC.
Dagnir said:
s1962a said:
I saw the speech from the asian Reform fella - was pretty good actually, and in line with "taking back control" as you would expect from Reform. The audience seemed to love it and comments on the video seemed positive too. Apparently he's a big donor to the party as well.
Question I have is - do the majority of Reform members and voters accept immigrants that came here a while back and have assimilated, or is this like a one off? They'd get far more people in their camp if they didn't seem to racist and anti muslim, but this dude was muslim and obviously not white, so i'd like to understand what i'm missing in this picture.
One of the issues plaguing the discussion around immigration is that not many seem to separate the individual from the the affect of the group demographic.Question I have is - do the majority of Reform members and voters accept immigrants that came here a while back and have assimilated, or is this like a one off? They'd get far more people in their camp if they didn't seem to racist and anti muslim, but this dude was muslim and obviously not white, so i'd like to understand what i'm missing in this picture.
One can have no issue with immigrants from different cultures on a personal level but multiply that by X and it's a totally different discussion due to the impact on our society/culture as a whole.
The problem reasonable people have with mass immigration is the detrimental effect the group as a whole is having. This is self evidentially not a racist viewpoint but it's twisted to mean you have a problem with people on a personal level or based on skin colour...and hence racist.
They are separate things entirely...
...and this where the disconnect in understanding comes from I think. You have to separate the individual from impact of the group.
Otherwise you're having a discussion about racist discrimination...
- Drought
- Plenty
- Flood
Blue62 said:
It’s also a case of repeat a lie often enough and it morphs into fact, see Boris, Nigel and Donald for details. As someone who’s business was directly affected by the GFC it always irritates me to read that it was Brown’s fault, along with the complete lack of recognition for Darling’s role in cleaning up the mess.
I suppose someone will be along in a minute to remind us about the note Liam Byrne left for Osborne, yawn.
,I suppose someone will be along in a minute to remind us about the note Liam Byrne left for Osborne, yawn.
For many people (outside PH.....) any reference to Blair, Brown, GF C, Osborne etc is all a bit over their heads - it's now too many years down the line and most of those politicians are now, understandably, irrelevant.
The Tory record, certainly since Boris arrived as PM, has been generally disastrous and the younger voters may have never experienced a Labour government - it's not surprising that they'll go for any party that isn't Tory. They may find that their decision now opens up a new set of problems which they hadn't expected (higher taxes?) but the whole point of a GE is to give power to the people.
If we still had Blair (in his early days) or Maggie Thatcher it would at least be worth voting - Starmer, Sunak, the LibDem joke and Farage hardly set the world alight.
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