Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[markh1973]

NerveAgent said:

Elysium said:

I don’t think the person involved was using that language to describe the entire LGBTQ community.

That’s sounds like a bit of an…extrapolation.

extrapolating a square into a circle

[Vanden Saab]

oyster said:

Ridgemont said:

I have to say I won’t be voting Reform but I’m pretty appalled by the selection process for the audience on the BBC tonight.
It’s ludicrous. Multiple questioners effectively calling him a racist. The format is like watching a shooting gallery. Fairplay to him for ploughing on.

Assuming they poll 15%-20%, then 80%-85% will not support them. And I suspect a large proportion of that majority will not be ambivalent towards them.

Stands to reason that they will get a rougher ride.

You have to admire the thinking that has gone into this. By this logic the Greens at 5% would be unable to get a word in for the heckling and abuse.
Thinking that the majority of the 80% hate him just confirms your own bias. The trouble is the BBC think the same way which is why it continues to happen.
Farage knew exactly what was coming and has no doubt gained a few more voters who see it and with the C4 debacle understand what is going on. Another win for him once again enabled by those trying to do the opposite.

[PRTVR]

abzmike said:

PRTVR said:

swisstoni said:

PRTVR said:

Is it not more important than just a victim card ?
If true and he is an actor and may have been paid, given when the programme was released so close to the election, are we not looking at interference in the electoral system?

I’d like to think C4 were duped rather than they were behind the whole thing. That way, madness lies.

agreed its just coincidence that Reform were going after the BBC licence fee in their manifesto.

I believe channel 4 are funded via the BBC.

To ease your mind, C4 are publicly owned but fully funded by their own commercial activity including advertising.

Do you believe it was coincidental that the programme went out 1 Week before the election and not timed to cause maximum impact and damage ?


The world is changing to the right, there is going to be many who are unhappy with it, but they will be totally unaware that the movement is a reaction to many of their left wing ideas.

[crankedup5]

Vanden Saab said:

oyster said:

Ridgemont said:

I have to say I won’t be voting Reform but I’m pretty appalled by the selection process for the audience on the BBC tonight.
It’s ludicrous. Multiple questioners effectively calling him a racist. The format is like watching a shooting gallery. Fairplay to him for ploughing on.

Assuming they poll 15%-20%, then 80%-85% will not support them. And I suspect a large proportion of that majority will not be ambivalent towards them.

Stands to reason that they will get a rougher ride.

You have to admire the thinking that has gone into this. By this logic the Greens at 5% would be unable to get a word in for the heckling and abuse.
Thinking that the majority of the 80% hate him just confirms your own bias. The trouble is the BBC think the same way which is why it continues to happen.
Farage knew exactly what was coming and has no doubt gained a few more voters who see it and with the C4 debacle understand what is going on. Another win for him once again enabled by those trying to do the opposite.

The bias was clear and very obvious,well played Reform U.K. batting away a barrage of planted questions of the same theme. Disgusting performance again from BBC.

[LimmerickLad]

crankedup5 said:

The bias was clear and very obvious,well played Reform U.K. batting away a barrage of planted questions of the same theme. Disgusting performance again from BBC.

Wasn't it just? But as in the shouty ones on here, they've probably recruited more supporters for Reform than they lost them...keep up the good work folks

[Baroque attacks]

I’m shocked that Reform attracts racists. Shocked.

[skwdenyer]

Elysium said:

Killboy said:

Elysium said:

Which aligns almost exactly with what I have said.

Like it or not, some people are upset by the way some LGBTQ+ activists engage with children. This seems to reach fever point over events like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hou...

Pretty sure that's what Farage's chap was mithering about.

Ah, that all makes it okay then

I specifically said it wasn’t OK in a post just prior to the one you quoted.

Drag Queen isn't a gender. There are plenty who aren't LGBTQ+.

[bad company]

I thought Farage did very well on question time this evening.

Balanced audience though? No way unless you count BBC lefties as neutral.

[skwdenyer]

PRTVR said:

The world is changing to the right, there is going to be many who are unhappy with it, but they will be totally unaware that the movement is a reaction to many of their left wing ideas.

There are a lot of theories, but many of them don't support your contention, but instead suggest that appeasement of hard-right views (cf UK Tories, Spain's People's Party, and others) results in greater success for right-wing parties - the centre-right parties legitimise the hard-right extremists.

But I think it is a bit early to say "the world is changing to the right."

[fido]

bad company said:

I thought Farage did very well on question time this evening.

Balanced audience though? No way unless you count BBC lefties as neutral.

She totally cut him off when he mentioned the actor did 'undercover filming' on his profile!

[Ridgemont]

oyster said:

Ridgemont said:

I have to say I won’t be voting Reform but I’m pretty appalled by the selection process for the audience on the BBC tonight.
It’s ludicrous. Multiple questioners effectively calling him a racist. The format is like watching a shooting gallery. Fairplay to him for ploughing on.

Assuming they poll 15%-20%, then 80%-85% will not support them. And I suspect a large proportion of that majority will not be ambivalent towards them.

Stands to reason that they will get a rougher ride.

So the idea of putting forward an audience of unaligned would be nonsensical?
I get Question Time during non election periods ought to (and does) reflect existing preferences (tho the joy of the Question Time thread was noting that that was a completely bogus nonsense), but during an election surely it makes sense to stack it with undecideds?

FWIW I thought Farage came out of it better than how I anticipated so hilariously am considering voting for the local reform guy. Have tried researching him online since as Farage noted their vetting process seems to be hopeless, just in case he appears to be a closet Hitler fan.

[JagLover]

swisstoni said:

PRTVR said:

Is it not more important than just a victim card ?
If true and he is an actor and may have been paid, given when the programme was released so close to the election, are we not looking at interference in the electoral system?

I’d like to think C4 were duped rather than they were behind the whole thing. That way, madness lies.

Well if they were it would be by whoever was doing the undercover footage and whoever knew what they were doing. More plausible than being signed off all the way up the organisation, so fair point.

Still big news though, if true, and perhaps the worst example of election interference I can think of.

[PRTVR]

skwdenyer said:

PRTVR said:

The world is changing to the right, there is going to be many who are unhappy with it, but they will be totally unaware that the movement is a reaction to many of their left wing ideas.

There are a lot of theories, but many of them don't support your contention, but instead suggest that appeasement of hard-right views (cf UK Tories, Spain's People's Party, and others) results in greater success for right-wing parties - the centre-right parties legitimise the hard-right extremists.

But I think it is a bit early to say "the world is changing to the right."

The Tories hard right ? How far to the left do you have to be to think the Tories are far right ?
Even normally left leaning Sweden has switched to the right, USA, Argentina, Switzerland , Italy, Holland, France, the list goes on.

[Oilchange]

Tories hard right?

You've gone mad.

[wisbech]

Elysium said:

Which aligns almost exactly with what I have said.

Like it or not, some people are upset by the way some LGBTQ+ activists engage with children. This seems to reach fever point over events like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hou...

Pretty sure that's what Farage's chap was mithering about.

Not sure that cultural issues in the US are relevant. Drag in the UK is exactly the sort of tradition that you would normally expect Reform to champion - panto, women’s roles in plays being taken by men/ boys in single sex schools and the armed forces. Eg this famous photo showing not just the Highlanders that wore skirts to battle

[Fast and Spurious]

Heard that before on here- I would imagine that they are russian trolls, nothing else makes sense.

[bitchstewie]

Elysium said:

I don’t think the person involved was using that language to describe the entire LGBTQ community. That is an extrapolation.

Although most people are entirely comfortable with gender diversity there is a widespread belief, reinforced by the Cass Review, that trans activism has gone too far.

Most of this concern is about potential harm caused to children and there have been examples of inappropriate conduct in this area, most notably in the US with quite bizzare stories of ‘drag queen story hours’ in schools.

I think that is what this person is talking about. Based specifically on the meaning of the word they have chosen.

This does not just affect reform. The conservatives have their own policies aimed at this ideology and Labour is obviously wrestling with its views on the matter. Meanwhile, at this point the pride flag for some represents a disputed political belief, which taxpayer funded organisations like the police should not be funding.

I think you are aware of this, but have chosen to ignore the nuances of the issue and instead engage in faux outrage.

If you want to understand why Reform is getting traction you need to understand these issues. This is not the territory of racists and bigots. Otherwise reasonable people feel that this is wrong and they want to be listened to. Reform are doing that.

He said "You see that fking degenerate flag on the front bonnet? What are the old bill doing promoting that crap? They should be out catching nonces not promoting the fkers.".

Most of your post is you trying to come up with some charitable interpretation of what that filth meant.

You can have genuine concerns without calling a whole community "nonces".

It's gross.

Stop making excuses for it.

[bobbo89]

skwdenyer said:

Drag Queen isn't a gender. There are plenty who aren't LGBTQ+.

LGB isnt a gender....

[bitchstewie]

Ridgemont said:

I have to say I won’t be voting Reform but I’m pretty appalled by the selection process for the audience on the BBC tonight.
It’s ludicrous. Multiple questioners effectively calling him a racist. The format is like watching a shooting gallery. Fairplay to him for ploughing on.

I've got a little bit of time for this if I'm honest as I watched some of it and felt he got a pretty hard time from the audience.

Looking it another way if you look where Reform are in the polls it's around 18% so perhaps 1 in 6.

I wasn't keeping count of the questions but if 5 out of 6 people don't want to vote for a party with racist candidates perhaps the questioning simply represents that?

[Rufus Stone]

bhstewie said:

He said "You see that fking degenerate flag on the front bonnet? What are the old bill doing promoting that crap? They should be out catching nonces not promoting the fkers.".

Most of your post is you trying to come up with some charitable interpretation of what that filth meant.

You can have genuine concerns without calling a whole community "nonces".

It's gross.

Stop making excuses for it.

Just checking, is 'filth' your new buzzword? I had only just got used to 'grubby'.