£1.4bn of Covid PPE Destroyed

[Mortarboard]

Sway said:

There is no such thing as 'value for money' in this sort of scenario.

You want it, so does everyone else. So, if you can secure it, you pay what is asked. There's as much (in fact more!) value in the ability to supply, as there is the actual item.

Frankly, I'm fking glad there was a Mr and Mrs Jones in the UK capable of doing so. I'll say it again - over one and a half billion bits of kit. I'm quite happy they're now living the life of Reilly, as if it wasn't them, it'd have been a Mr and Mrs Yank, or Mr and Mrs Deutsche.

This. And in spades.

"Oh, you want a shed load of PPE, that's in super high demand, during a pandemic and coupled with logistics issues worldwide? Oh, and you want value for money too?"
Cue maniacal laughter.

Good, fast, cheap.

You get to pick two.

M.

[Mortarboard]

alangla said:

Is the real question here more around how NHS stock mismanagement has caused so much apparently decent kit to go out of date while they’re presumably still buying more?

Volumes needed/used during covid were colloidal, compare to normal usage.
Would not be surprised if the amount being retired is 50-50 years worth of normal usage levels.

M.

[pavarotti1980]

alangla said:

Is the real question here more around how NHS stock mismanagement has caused so much apparently decent kit to go out of date while they’re presumably still buying more?

No because COVID PPE was taken away from NHS/NHS Supply Chain and managed centrally by DoH instead. This is a question directly for their civil servants and ministers but since we a currently in a pre-election period of sensitivity they can put it to one side and then next Friday it will be someone else problem to look into despite not being involved by which time the responsible people will (hopefully) not be anywhere near HMG

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Tuesday 25th June 16:50

[alangla]

pavarotti1980 said:

No because COVID PPE was taken away from NHS and managed centrally by DoH instead

Ok…. Next question is, when the pandemic started to abate, was there a plan to either feed the stockpiled materials into the normal NHS/care home/dentists/devolved NHSs (cue some idiocy from the SNP) supply chains, or did the DHSC just sit on it?

[pavarotti1980]

alangla said:

Ok…. Next question is, when the pandemic started to abate, was there a plan to either feed the stockpiled materials into the normal NHS/care home/dentists/devolved NHSs (cue some idiocy from the SNP) supply chains, or did the DHSC just sit on it?

DHSC have sat on it and done nothing, hence it being found in a field somewhere and being in the position we are now. At the end of the day someone pretty high up in government is responsible for f****ng up. Maybe after July 4th the FOIs should be submitted to find out who was responsible.

[alangla]

pavarotti1980 said:

DHSC have sat on it and done nothing, hence it being found in a field somewhere and being in the position we are now. At the end of the day someone pretty high up in government is responsible for f****ng up. Maybe after July 4th the FOIs should be submitted to find out who was responsible.

Pretty much what I suspected. I honestly don’t see what the supplier has done wrong here, this looks entirely like a DHSC screwup.

[AB]

Leithen said:

What makes you think it's off the back of a few phone calls.

You must realise that there is a hell of a lot more to it than that, add to which you are dealing with China and in the midst of a pandemic.

Absolutely. Taking money and sending it to China in the hope stuff turned up will have been a nightmare. Paid off in this case. Didn't in many others.

[Jockman]

pavarotti1980 said:

Olivera said:

So what? We could have tried dealing direct with the manufacturers in China and saved a billion quid?

Even in the midst of Covid there must have been some oversight and procurement rules in place for a multi billion pound deal, at least one would hope. Unless there was just a ministerial free for all (VIP contracts), incompetence and corruption on a significant scale.

This company already had a PPE contract. This was simply a request to increase the volumes outside of contracted amounts

Indeed. There should also have been a tiered rebate in the contract so that as volume increases the NHS would have been due a wee bit of money back.

[Gareth79]

I occasionally buy stuff from British Medical Auctions and there has been quite a lot of obvious covid surplus stuff coming through. The most obvious being Aeonmed ventilators, which were purchased at £9,000 each for the first 1,000 and *£50,000* each for the next 2,700. They are mostly brand new in their box, and have been consistently selling at £200-400 for a pallet of 2. There are so many to sell that if they listed them all there would simply be zero buyers.

On the MOD side, often you see brand new boxed megaphones at the Ramco auctions. I always imagine a desk at the MOD where a guy is arranging for a dozen to go to auction, and a guy at the next desk placing an order for a dozen brand new ones (at full retail price, of course).

[98elise]

Jockman said:

pavarotti1980 said:

Olivera said:

So what? We could have tried dealing direct with the manufacturers in China and saved a billion quid?

Even in the midst of Covid there must have been some oversight and procurement rules in place for a multi billion pound deal, at least one would hope. Unless there was just a ministerial free for all (VIP contracts), incompetence and corruption on a significant scale.

This company already had a PPE contract. This was simply a request to increase the volumes outside of contracted amounts

Indeed. There should also have been a tiered rebate in the contract so that as volume increases the NHS would have been due a wee bit of money back.

How does that work in a pandemic when global demand has gone up a hundredfold?

The manufacturers certainly wouldn't be offering any volume discounts. They could sell everything at a premium, and then some!

[Jockman]

98elise said:

How does that work in a pandemic when global demand has gone up a hundredfold?

The manufacturers certainly wouldn't be offering any volume discounts. They could sell everything at a premium, and then some!

The volume discounts would have been in the contract well before the pandemic. Ours were.

[Mortarboard]

Pretty sure "global pandemic" is included in most force majeure clauses

M.

[Sargeant Orange]

Turns out dropshipping is profitable after all.

Someone's had their pants pulled down

[Jockman]

Mortarboard said:

Pretty sure "global pandemic" is included in most force majeure clauses

M.

You’re probably right about that. Our rebates were in truth never actioned. Small scale compared to NHS contracts.

[cliffords]

I have not read every post .
Why does this stuff have a shelf life , how can it already be up ?

Gloves, gowns , face masks , resperators, surely it's all good for years .

[FWIW]

cliffords said:

I have not read every post . .

Perhaps you should skim read…

[Mortarboard]

cliffords said:

I have not read every post .
Why does this stuff have a shelf life , how can it already be up ?

Gloves, gowns , face masks , resperators, surely it's all good for years .

Chemical coatings break down, and seams aren't as "tight" as they used to be. Filters lose flexibility.

Better than nothing, but won't perform to original specifications any more.

M.

[James6112]

Sargeant Orange said:

Turns out dropshipping is profitable after all.

Someone's had their pants pulled down

Are you stating that ‘Full Support Healthcare’
are a dropshipping outfit?

[Terminator X]

Free money innit, tax payers can be rinsed with no accountability.

TX.

[98elise]

Jockman said:

98elise said:

How does that work in a pandemic when global demand has gone up a hundredfold?

The manufacturers certainly wouldn't be offering any volume discounts. They could sell everything at a premium, and then some!

The volume discounts would have been in the contract well before the pandemic. Ours were.

How would that get the PPE that now sells at a premium? The middleman isn't going to sell extra volume at a loss.