Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
President Merkin said:
119 said:
I don't.
Many here do.
I doubt that. No one can know 4 million people. But we can observe multiple racist incidents involving Reform candidates & activists, sustained over months and disproportionately involving them too. We also see the mealy mouthed excuses, the bullsMany here do.
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It's fine lads, you love your party & its backwards politics, we'll keep making rational, evidence based judgments about it.
Although please do keep it up, as it provides great entertainment for everyone.
President Merkin said:
The Tories lost 250 seats. 166 of those, Reform came ahead of them in votes, if you add those 166 back in to the Tories, you get to 287, not a majority & in any case an assumption that every Reform vote would have gone Tory which is ridiculous. If you say 25% go back then you only get 47 seats back which is roughly 1997 levels.
Also in lots of those, Reform came 2nd, so it's far from clear Reform would be beneficiaries AND in 84 of those seats, winning every Reform vote wouldn't have kept them in Tory hands - the LD's being big winners there.
Ergo, no doubt Farage cost the Tories dozens of seats but that is far from the whole picture. The Tories collapsed among voter trust.
![](https://forums-images.pistonheads.com/652282/202407055903473?resize=720)
I think Reform have made big in roads into the leave Tory seats, the big issue is whether they can build from here. The Nazi party had only a few seats in the 1928 Reichstag, things had changed by 1930 and again by 1933, watch this space. Also in lots of those, Reform came 2nd, so it's far from clear Reform would be beneficiaries AND in 84 of those seats, winning every Reform vote wouldn't have kept them in Tory hands - the LD's being big winners there.
Ergo, no doubt Farage cost the Tories dozens of seats but that is far from the whole picture. The Tories collapsed among voter trust.
Blue62 said:
President Merkin said:
The Tories lost 250 seats. 166 of those, Reform came ahead of them in votes, if you add those 166 back in to the Tories, you get to 287, not a majority & in any case an assumption that every Reform vote would have gone Tory which is ridiculous. If you say 25% go back then you only get 47 seats back which is roughly 1997 levels.
Also in lots of those, Reform came 2nd, so it's far from clear Reform would be beneficiaries AND in 84 of those seats, winning every Reform vote wouldn't have kept them in Tory hands - the LD's being big winners there.
Ergo, no doubt Farage cost the Tories dozens of seats but that is far from the whole picture. The Tories collapsed among voter trust.
![](https://forums-images.pistonheads.com/652282/202407055903473?resize=720)
I think Reform have made big in roads into the leave Tory seats, the big issue is whether they can build from here. The Nazi party had only a few seats in the 1928 Reichstag, things had changed by 1930 and again by 1933, watch this space. Also in lots of those, Reform came 2nd, so it's far from clear Reform would be beneficiaries AND in 84 of those seats, winning every Reform vote wouldn't have kept them in Tory hands - the LD's being big winners there.
Ergo, no doubt Farage cost the Tories dozens of seats but that is far from the whole picture. The Tories collapsed among voter trust.
b
hstewie said:
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Which bit of what he said is incorrect?
Let's face it most of you couldn't rustle up a spine between you when it comes to calling out the s
t their candidates have come out with.
Here he goes, full on White Knight today.Let's face it most of you couldn't rustle up a spine between you when it comes to calling out the s
![](/inc/images/censored.gif)
Does the same apply to Labour with anti-semitism?
Tories with any anti-Palestinian shtick?
Things is BS, most people aren't as emotionally invested in the state of it skriking as you. Take a chill pill. It's a car forum. Maybe talk about cars for a bit instead.
Blue62 said:
I think Reform have made big in roads into the leave Tory seats, the big issue is whether they can build from here. The Nazi party had only a few seats in the 1928 Reichstag, things had changed by 1930 and again by 1933, watch this space.
I think much may have changed in 90+ years.....smn159 said:
swisstoni said:
You seem to be forgetting antisemites. I’ve a fair idea who they voted for.
Reform presumably, given Farage's previous pronouncements?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/j...
Righto.
Murph7355 said:
Here he goes, full on White Knight today.
Does the same apply to Labour with anti-semitism?
Tories with any anti-Palestinian shtick?
Things is BS, most people aren't as emotionally invested in the state of it skriking as you. Take a chill pill. It's a car forum. Maybe talk about cars for a bit instead.
Look at my posts and you'll find I've been very consistent about anti-semitism in Labour because yes the same applies.Does the same apply to Labour with anti-semitism?
Tories with any anti-Palestinian shtick?
Things is BS, most people aren't as emotionally invested in the state of it skriking as you. Take a chill pill. It's a car forum. Maybe talk about cars for a bit instead.
Corbyn was a stain and whilst it isn't perfect by a long way Starmer has made massive strides and that isn't me saying it's people like Luciana Berger saying it.
If you think highlighting people who were very vocal about anti-semitism in Labour not having the balls to call it out when it's Farage's lot doing it is me going "full on White Knight today" I'm absolutely fine with that.
Beats being a spineless coward and ignoring it.
swisstoni said:
smn159 said:
swisstoni said:
You seem to be forgetting antisemites. I’ve a fair idea who they voted for.
Reform presumably, given Farage's previous pronouncements?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/j...
Righto.
Still, if you're OK with it that's fine I suppose.
Grrr Labour
Spectator say that 145 Conservatives would have kept their seats if all Reform voters had voted Conservative. Obviously not all would but I think the vast majority would and it's a good starting point until we get proper polling and analyses. 145+121=266, 8 more than Labour in 2010 from very similar numbers in the previous election.
For the Reform voters who prefer Conservative to Labour: food for thought?
For the Reform voters who prefer Conservative to Labour: food for thought?
Well reform outperformed UKIP.
Love him or loathe him, Farage along with Sturgeon have been the most effective and successful political operators this century. It will be interesting to see how Farage goes in our parliament and how Starmer works against him. Will he be more effective than the conservative leader, that is the big question for the Tory Mps?
That ex Labour and then Tory now Reform, ironically is re elected. Dear lord...
Love him or loathe him, Farage along with Sturgeon have been the most effective and successful political operators this century. It will be interesting to see how Farage goes in our parliament and how Starmer works against him. Will he be more effective than the conservative leader, that is the big question for the Tory Mps?
That ex Labour and then Tory now Reform, ironically is re elected. Dear lord...
smn159 said:
swisstoni said:
smn159 said:
swisstoni said:
You seem to be forgetting antisemites. I’ve a fair idea who they voted for.
Reform presumably, given Farage's previous pronouncements?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/j...
Righto.
Still, if you're OK with it that's fine I suppose.
Grrr Labour
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