Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
Harry Flashman said:
Those of us that detest right wing populism and its damaging, divisive messaging still have to admit this.
Doesn't change my view of the average Reform voter and most of their candidates (I held the same view of the Conservative right as well), but a large chunk of the country voted for people who got very few seats. And the party with a huge majority doesn't have anything like that majority reflected in actual votes.
The problem with PR (apart from giving extreme ideologies power) is a parliament locked without a clear majority, and thus no mandate for change, but rather endless bickering and worrying about alliances, over policy.
Top 5 last night:Doesn't change my view of the average Reform voter and most of their candidates (I held the same view of the Conservative right as well), but a large chunk of the country voted for people who got very few seats. And the party with a huge majority doesn't have anything like that majority reflected in actual votes.
The problem with PR (apart from giving extreme ideologies power) is a parliament locked without a clear majority, and thus no mandate for change, but rather endless bickering and worrying about alliances, over policy.
Labour - 33.7% vote 412 seats
Conservative - 23.7% vote 121 seats
Reform - 14.3% vote 4 seats
Liberal Democrats - 12.2% 71 seats
Green - 6.8% 4 seats
60% turnout.
We are definitely in interesting times.
frisbee said:
Reform will most likely collapse.
A couple of MPs will defect to the Tories, another will go via a byelection for something grottier than tractor porn and Farage will get bored and lose interest.
A strange thing to say...A couple of MPs will defect to the Tories, another will go via a byelection for something grottier than tractor porn and Farage will get bored and lose interest.
In Europe there is a massive move to the right, the reasons for this are present in the UK, Reform will increase because Labour will not address any of the problems,
Reforms 4 million voters are a lot to ignore .
Far Cough said:
frisbee said:
Reform will most likely collapse.
A couple of MPs will defect to the Tories, another will go via a byelection for something grottier than tractor porn and Farage will get bored and lose interest.
I think the opposite. This election was all about gaining traction which they got. Farage himself is now an MP so will sit right where he needs too. Immigration is only going to get worse with Labour and Farage will continue to make them look stupid. Despite the result I think it will be interesting to see the actual voting figures. I want to know how many people voted for X,Y and Z and how many couldn't be bothered.A couple of MPs will defect to the Tories, another will go via a byelection for something grottier than tractor porn and Farage will get bored and lose interest.
If , as predicted Labour increase taxes and generally make a huge hash of it all, Reform will be there again to pick up the disgruntled voter. I`m no political animal, just a view from a layman who detests politicians that cannot lie straight in bed !
On the negative side
Highly reliant on one man for broader appeal, who is ageing.
May have benefited from an anti-Tory vote that may not be there next time, or to the same extent.
On the positive side
The four seats they won were mainly well known figures and so shows the power of locally known candidates and proper vetting. A more organised party could take advantage.
Still many Conservative voters and former Conservative voters up for grabs, particularly in the seats where they came a strong second to Labour.
Some disillusionment with Labour is highly probable. Whether that be from their social agenda, tax, climate policies, or lack of improvements expected.
Farage already complaining that it’s not fair getting so few seats for the proportion of votes received.
It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: This is the bit I genuinely can't get my head around.
Does anyone really have Tice and Farage down as hard working constituency MPs prepared to put the hard work in in their respective seats over bin collections and local issues?
I really don't.
That's old hat now, MPs have been elected on their stance on Palestinian. Does anyone really have Tice and Farage down as hard working constituency MPs prepared to put the hard work in in their respective seats over bin collections and local issues?
I really don't.
lrdisco said:
Farage already complaining that it’s not fair getting so few seats for the proportion of votes received.
It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
The 2011 referendum wasn't for any form of proportional representation. It was for a form of single transferable vote. It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: This is the bit I genuinely can't get my head around.
Does anyone really have Tice and Farage down as hard working constituency MPs prepared to put the hard work in in their respective seats over bin collections and local issues?
I really don't.
Of course not. Reform managed to con three sad, seaside towns into voting for them because they promised to fix immigration by "stopping the boats" (all 2% of immigrants).Does anyone really have Tice and Farage down as hard working constituency MPs prepared to put the hard work in in their respective seats over bin collections and local issues?
I really don't.
lrdisco said:
Farage already complaining that it’s not fair getting so few seats for the proportion of votes received.
It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
Except that was for AV not PR and they aren't the same thing..........but you knew that really.It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
Dave200 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: This is the bit I genuinely can't get my head around.
Does anyone really have Tice and Farage down as hard working constituency MPs prepared to put the hard work in in their respective seats over bin collections and local issues?
I really don't.
Of course not. Reform managed to con three sad, seaside towns into voting for them because they promised to fix immigration by "stopping the boats" (all 2% of immigrants).Does anyone really have Tice and Farage down as hard working constituency MPs prepared to put the hard work in in their respective seats over bin collections and local issues?
I really don't.
lrdisco said:
Farage already complaining that it’s not fair getting so few seats for the proportion of votes received.
It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
No no no.It’s going to be hilarious watching him try to make the argument for another referendum on proportional representation voting after it was turned down in the last one in 2011.
After all it was the will of the people to not have a change from FPTP voting and we all know referendums can not be challenged ever.
Votes cannot be challenged when it's the result he wants.
He now doesn't want that result. So it's OK to challenge it.
M.
119 said:
The bitterness of some people regarding Nige getting in to parliament is just bizarre, especially considering he will have virtually no voice in there anyway.
I think some people have this mad idea where they object to two bob populists with a coterie of racists tagging along behind them.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff