Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: We've had:
How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?
It turns out that a disappointing proportion of the population share these appalling views.- Anti-Black racism
- Anti-Muslim racism
- Anti-Semitism
- Misogyny
- Homophobia
How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?
Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.
Mrr T said:
swisstoni said:
Nice to see you posting again. Been anywhere nice?
It is illegal to enter the country in the way the people on boats do.
But when they immediately claim asylum, a whole set of international asylum seeker laws are invoked.
The UK could technically refuse to offer asylum because they clearly haven’t claimed asylum at their first safe country.
But as the UK is a grown up G7 member, that’s not a good look and would get at least as messy as the current situation.
If I may correct you.It is illegal to enter the country in the way the people on boats do.
But when they immediately claim asylum, a whole set of international asylum seeker laws are invoked.
The UK could technically refuse to offer asylum because they clearly haven’t claimed asylum at their first safe country.
But as the UK is a grown up G7 member, that’s not a good look and would get at least as messy as the current situation.
The international asylum laws you refer to are the UNCR and protocol, which the UK has signed and is incorporated into UK law.
Entering the UK without the normal papers if you are entitled to asylum is not illegal under UK law.
There is no first safe country rule, although travel though intermediate countries should be done as quickly as practicable. That UK case law.
Hope that helps.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:biggbn said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: And now we have this filth.
Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’
There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.
This is getting incredible, isn't it? Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’
There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.
- Anti-Black racism
- Anti-Muslim racism
- Anti-Semitism
- Misogyny
- Homophobia
How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?
Elysium said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:biggbn said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: And now we have this filth.
Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’
There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.
This is getting incredible, isn't it? Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’
There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.
- Anti-Black racism
- Anti-Muslim racism
- Anti-Semitism
- Misogyny
- Homophobia
How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?
911hope said:
It turns out that a disappointing proportion of the population share these appalling views.
Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.
Ah we’re back to Reform voters are all thick as mince. That’s a LOT of people you’re calling out.Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.
911hope said:
It turns out that a disappointing proportion of the population share these appalling views.
Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.
I'm really trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but it's very hard when you just see excuse after excuse followed by "I'll still vote for them though".Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.
I think they know it'll bring about the election of the party they really don't want but they also really don't care.
They're basically arsonists who will set fire to the house just so nobody else can have it.
I'll also bet bad company won't address the points I've raised at least not in good faith.
Much easier to keep repeating the "few undesirable people" line than look really hard in the mirror and ask yourself why you're drawn to them.
Elysium said:
Mrr T said:
Elysium said:
There is obviously also an issue of demography with an aging population. But if our strategy is to keep bringing in young immigrants so that their children prop up our national insurance system, then that will ultimately fail.
More than half of the population take more out of the system than they put in. If the immigrants are younger and have more children, then they will be disproportionately in that group.
The entire tax system is propped up by those paying higher and additional rate taxes.
Something has to change here, otherwise we are on a never ending tax escalator.
This is one of the reasons why I actually quite like the Reform idea of a tax rebate for private healthcare. I would also support means testing of the state pension. The ‘safety net’ of the welfare state only needs to be there for those who need it.
I would rather see people fund their own retirement than have them supported by the state who then grab back the cost with inheritance tax.
It is a ponzi scene but it should work for another 20 to 30 years and there really are no alternatives.More than half of the population take more out of the system than they put in. If the immigrants are younger and have more children, then they will be disproportionately in that group.
The entire tax system is propped up by those paying higher and additional rate taxes.
Something has to change here, otherwise we are on a never ending tax escalator.
This is one of the reasons why I actually quite like the Reform idea of a tax rebate for private healthcare. I would also support means testing of the state pension. The ‘safety net’ of the welfare state only needs to be there for those who need it.
I would rather see people fund their own retirement than have them supported by the state who then grab back the cost with inheritance tax.
As for the 50% who take out more than they put in, 20% of the UK population is retired and almost all fall into that category. Immigration gives you a new worker with no cost for education, who will then have children which we will educate but then they will work for 45 years.
Calculating the benefits of immigration is not just about how much tax they pay you also need to consider,
1. Indirect taxes, we know the ONS figure excludes employer NI, it also does not consider the output from the immigrant which will also generate tax.
2. The opportunity costs. For example the care industry is heavily dependant on immigration. Less immigration less care beds more people stuck in hospital which is far more expensive and stops others getting treatment.
Best of luck with means testing pensions. It's not on the reform policy list. Looking at the meetings I can see why. As for making private healthcare tax deductible its good to know reform have found the magic money tree.
If we are to have a solution by then we need to start thinking about it now. Society seems to have decided that we should, which is why immigration control is being championed by most parties in this election.
I have made some suggestions.
1. Large increase in retirement age.
2. Reduction of state pension costs either by cutting in real terms or means testing.
3. Rationing of healthcare for retirees.
Best of luck getting elected on those policies.
Unfortunately, 50% of society is below average intelligence.
I would agree reducing it from it current level would have little problem. However, the reform policy is.
What we do know is any changes will be the responsibility of the government so we cannot assume it will be a complete f**I up.
My thoughts and why I’m still undecided:-
I’m a natural and long term Conservative voter and ex party member. I generally approve of their policies but they failed to deliver on previous promises. Also some terrible leadership over the years. I’m also very dissatisfied with the local conservative candidate James Cleverly.
Labour. The policies appear ok at first glance but very worried about taxes they haven’t mentioned and could increase. Also worried about likely increased union power and loony left influence once they’re in power. Kier Starmer seems bland and uninspiring.
Lib/Dem. They’ve said they’d raise taxes which is at least honest. Ed Davey comes across as a clown to me. What on earth is he doing being photographed falling into the water. Does he really think that’ll win him votes? Also they clearly want to re join the EU. That’s a big no from me.
Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m also a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
Green. Unelectable imo though they have my gratitude and respect for influencing the major parties to adopt some green policies.
I’m a natural and long term Conservative voter and ex party member. I generally approve of their policies but they failed to deliver on previous promises. Also some terrible leadership over the years. I’m also very dissatisfied with the local conservative candidate James Cleverly.
Labour. The policies appear ok at first glance but very worried about taxes they haven’t mentioned and could increase. Also worried about likely increased union power and loony left influence once they’re in power. Kier Starmer seems bland and uninspiring.
Lib/Dem. They’ve said they’d raise taxes which is at least honest. Ed Davey comes across as a clown to me. What on earth is he doing being photographed falling into the water. Does he really think that’ll win him votes? Also they clearly want to re join the EU. That’s a big no from me.
Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m also a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
Green. Unelectable imo though they have my gratitude and respect for influencing the major parties to adopt some green policies.
Mrr T said:
So what else would you do?
I have made some suggestions.
1. Large increase in retirement age.
2. Reduction of state pension costs either by cutting in real terms or means testing.
3. Rationing of healthcare for retirees.
Best of luck getting elected on those policies.
except none of that is currently required. We have had large increases in the retirement age and state pension spending is currently affordable as a percentage of GDP. I have made some suggestions.
1. Large increase in retirement age.
2. Reduction of state pension costs either by cutting in real terms or means testing.
3. Rationing of healthcare for retirees.
Best of luck getting elected on those policies.
If anything drastic is required it is on social care and that would be to ensure it is available and is funded by the assets of the elderly(or in reality their estates).
Dave200 said:
What in the incel/dinosaur attitude is going on here?
Firstly, absolutely no credible source has attributed our falling birthrate to the "independent boss babes who don't need a man, as men are trash" nonsense you've rolled out there.
Instead it's attributed to more sensible things like the increased cost of living, and the increased career opportunities for women.
Would you prefer we went back to an age where women were stuck under a professional glass ceiling, where their only viable option is to drop out of the workforce and procreate?
Actually, if you're the sort of Reform voter who spends their life telling everyone how much better the UK was "back in the day", that probably sounds quite attractive.
If we want to increase birthrate, we need to accept that we need an economy where women are incentivised to have both career and family. And guess what, that's going to require more low-cost labour to do things like staffing childcare options.
Firstly, absolutely no credible source has attributed our falling birthrate to the "independent boss babes who don't need a man, as men are trash" nonsense you've rolled out there.
Instead it's attributed to more sensible things like the increased cost of living, and the increased career opportunities for women.
Would you prefer we went back to an age where women were stuck under a professional glass ceiling, where their only viable option is to drop out of the workforce and procreate?
Actually, if you're the sort of Reform voter who spends their life telling everyone how much better the UK was "back in the day", that probably sounds quite attractive.
If we want to increase birthrate, we need to accept that we need an economy where women are incentivised to have both career and family. And guess what, that's going to require more low-cost labour to do things like staffing childcare options.
Well said.bad company said:
911hope said:
It turns out that a disappointing proportion of the population share these appalling views.
Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.
Ah we’re back to Reform voters are all thick as mince. That’s a LOT of people you’re calling out.Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.
Vasco said:
Dave200 said:
What in the incel/dinosaur attitude is going on here?
Firstly, absolutely no credible source has attributed our falling birthrate to the "independent boss babes who don't need a man, as men are trash" nonsense you've rolled out there.
Instead it's attributed to more sensible things like the increased cost of living, and the increased career opportunities for women.
Would you prefer we went back to an age where women were stuck under a professional glass ceiling, where their only viable option is to drop out of the workforce and procreate?
Actually, if you're the sort of Reform voter who spends their life telling everyone how much better the UK was "back in the day", that probably sounds quite attractive.
If we want to increase birthrate, we need to accept that we need an economy where women are incentivised to have both career and family. And guess what, that's going to require more low-cost labour to do things like staffing childcare options.
Firstly, absolutely no credible source has attributed our falling birthrate to the "independent boss babes who don't need a man, as men are trash" nonsense you've rolled out there.
Instead it's attributed to more sensible things like the increased cost of living, and the increased career opportunities for women.
Would you prefer we went back to an age where women were stuck under a professional glass ceiling, where their only viable option is to drop out of the workforce and procreate?
Actually, if you're the sort of Reform voter who spends their life telling everyone how much better the UK was "back in the day", that probably sounds quite attractive.
If we want to increase birthrate, we need to accept that we need an economy where women are incentivised to have both career and family. And guess what, that's going to require more low-cost labour to do things like staffing childcare options.
Well said.Dagnir said:
Vasco said:
Don't you feel that 'dealing with house prices, dealing with crime' etc etc aren't rather long term aims rather than anything solid that could actually happen in our lifetimes ?
We'd all love such changes but there's few/any suggestions as to how it could be achieved and all the time that women find more enjoyable ways to fill in their lives there won't be much desire to produce even more babies.
Not in the slightest, no.We'd all love such changes but there's few/any suggestions as to how it could be achieved and all the time that women find more enjoyable ways to fill in their lives there won't be much desire to produce even more babies.
They should be at the top of everyone's list and be acted upon immediately and decisively.
They are all connected as well. Start dealing with some aspects and that will feed into the other areas. It's a complicated problem and not an easy fix but plastering over the cracks with the mass immigration we have at the moment, is making the issues worse and not better.
HOW do we reduce crime ??
It's not that anyone disagrees, it's that nobody has come up with realistic solutions.
bad company said:
My thoughts and why I’m still undecided:-
I’m a natural and long term Conservative voter and ex party member. I generally approve of their policies but they failed to deliver on previous promises. Also some terrible leadership over the years. I’m also very dissatisfied with the local conservative candidate James Cleverly.
Labour. The policies appear ok at first glance but very worried about taxes they haven’t mentioned and could increase. Also worried about likely increased union power and loony left influence once they’re in power. Kier Starmer seems bland and uninspiring.
Lib/Dem. They’ve said they’d raise taxes which is at least honest. Ed Davey comes across as a clown to me. What on earth is he doing being photographed falling into the water. Does he really think that’ll win him votes? Also they clearly want to re join the EU. That’s a big no from me.
Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m also a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
Green. Unelectable imo though they have my gratitude and respect for influencing the major parties to adopt some green policies.
That largely sums me up too.I’m a natural and long term Conservative voter and ex party member. I generally approve of their policies but they failed to deliver on previous promises. Also some terrible leadership over the years. I’m also very dissatisfied with the local conservative candidate James Cleverly.
Labour. The policies appear ok at first glance but very worried about taxes they haven’t mentioned and could increase. Also worried about likely increased union power and loony left influence once they’re in power. Kier Starmer seems bland and uninspiring.
Lib/Dem. They’ve said they’d raise taxes which is at least honest. Ed Davey comes across as a clown to me. What on earth is he doing being photographed falling into the water. Does he really think that’ll win him votes? Also they clearly want to re join the EU. That’s a big no from me.
Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m also a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
Green. Unelectable imo though they have my gratitude and respect for influencing the major parties to adopt some green policies.
Dave200 said:
Vasco said:
Dave200 said:
What in the incel/dinosaur attitude is going on here?
Firstly, absolutely no credible source has attributed our falling birthrate to the "independent boss babes who don't need a man, as men are trash" nonsense you've rolled out there.
Instead it's attributed to more sensible things like the increased cost of living, and the increased career opportunities for women.
Would you prefer we went back to an age where women were stuck under a professional glass ceiling, where their only viable option is to drop out of the workforce and procreate?
Actually, if you're the sort of Reform voter who spends their life telling everyone how much better the UK was "back in the day", that probably sounds quite attractive.
If we want to increase birthrate, we need to accept that we need an economy where women are incentivised to have both career and family. And guess what, that's going to require more low-cost labour to do things like staffing childcare options.
Firstly, absolutely no credible source has attributed our falling birthrate to the "independent boss babes who don't need a man, as men are trash" nonsense you've rolled out there.
Instead it's attributed to more sensible things like the increased cost of living, and the increased career opportunities for women.
Would you prefer we went back to an age where women were stuck under a professional glass ceiling, where their only viable option is to drop out of the workforce and procreate?
Actually, if you're the sort of Reform voter who spends their life telling everyone how much better the UK was "back in the day", that probably sounds quite attractive.
If we want to increase birthrate, we need to accept that we need an economy where women are incentivised to have both career and family. And guess what, that's going to require more low-cost labour to do things like staffing childcare options.
Well said.Vasco said:
bad company said:
My thoughts and why I’m still undecided:-
I’m a natural and long term Conservative voter and ex party member. I generally approve of their policies but they failed to deliver on previous promises. Also some terrible leadership over the years. I’m also very dissatisfied with the local conservative candidate James Cleverly.
Labour. The policies appear ok at first glance but very worried about taxes they haven’t mentioned and could increase. Also worried about likely increased union power and loony left influence once they’re in power. Kier Starmer seems bland and uninspiring.
Lib/Dem. They’ve said they’d raise taxes which is at least honest. Ed Davey comes across as a clown to me. What on earth is he doing being photographed falling into the water. Does he really think that’ll win him votes? Also they clearly want to re join the EU. That’s a big no from me.
Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m also a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
Green. Unelectable imo though they have my gratitude and respect for influencing the major parties to adopt some green policies.
That largely sums me up too.I’m a natural and long term Conservative voter and ex party member. I generally approve of their policies but they failed to deliver on previous promises. Also some terrible leadership over the years. I’m also very dissatisfied with the local conservative candidate James Cleverly.
Labour. The policies appear ok at first glance but very worried about taxes they haven’t mentioned and could increase. Also worried about likely increased union power and loony left influence once they’re in power. Kier Starmer seems bland and uninspiring.
Lib/Dem. They’ve said they’d raise taxes which is at least honest. Ed Davey comes across as a clown to me. What on earth is he doing being photographed falling into the water. Does he really think that’ll win him votes? Also they clearly want to re join the EU. That’s a big no from me.
Reform. Some good policies imo but are they properly costed? I like Nigel Farage though, he and the party have been very badly treated by the BBC. The very biased Question Time audience being a clear example. I’m also a bit put off by the numbers of racist supporters.
Green. Unelectable imo though they have my gratitude and respect for influencing the major parties to adopt some green policies.
JagLover said:
Mrr T said:
So what else would you do?
I have made some suggestions.
1. Large increase in retirement age.
2. Reduction of state pension costs either by cutting in real terms or means testing.
3. Rationing of healthcare for retirees.
Best of luck getting elected on those policies.
except none of that is currently required. We have had large increases in the retirement age and state pension spending is currently affordable as a percentage of GDP. I have made some suggestions.
1. Large increase in retirement age.
2. Reduction of state pension costs either by cutting in real terms or means testing.
3. Rationing of healthcare for retirees.
Best of luck getting elected on those policies.
If anything drastic is required it is on social care and that would be to ensure it is available and is funded by the assets of the elderly(or in reality their estates).
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff