Reform UK

[LimmerickLad]

JagLover said:

Dave200 said:

LimmerickLad said:

Dave200 said:

The policy to dismantle the NHS and replace it with an insurance system reminiscent of the US?

Is that what is stated in their manifesto / contract or your interpretation?

Unlike the unfounded 'Labour bogeyman' stuff that's doing the rounds to scare older voters, the Reform party leader has been consistently quoted as saying he wants "privatisation of the NHS" (not my words, but a direct quote from him).

A vote for Reform is a vote that supports "privatisation of the NHS".

There are many different types of health systems and Reform are talking of a more European system. Farage has explicitly said he wants a "French style" system.

Indeed...fill your boots Dave
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/reformuk/pages/25...

and while you are at it goggle The National Health Service (Private Finance) Act 1997 (c 56)

Edited by LimmerickLad on Wednesday 3rd July 12:14

[bitchstewie]

biggbn said:

bhstewie said:

And now we have this filth.

Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’

There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.

This is getting incredible, isn't it?

We've had:

• Anti-Black racism
• Anti-Muslim racism
• Anti-Semitism
• Misogyny
• Homophobia

And now we're mocking disabled people.

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

[Dave200]

bhstewie said:

biggbn said:

bhstewie said:

And now we have this filth.

Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’

There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.

This is getting incredible, isn't it?

We've had:

• Anti-Black racism
• Anti-Muslim racism
• Anti-Semitism
• Misogyny
• Homophobia

And now we're mocking disabled people.

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

Because they promise to "get the immigration crisis under control", by focusing their efforts and energies on the 2% who arrive in "small boats".

I'd almost like to see them get into power, just to watch at their amateurish attempts to run the country reduce the party to a smouldering wreck. They'd be like the dog that caught the car.

[Dagnir]

Dave200 said:

Because it gets the gammony types (of all ages) all riled up.

No need to bring race into it....

[bad company]

bhstewie said:

We've had:

• Anti-Black racism
• Anti-Muslim racism
• Anti-Semitism
• Misogyny
• Homophobia

And now we're mocking disabled people.

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

There’s no denying that a few undesirable people have been attracted to Reform. None of that is in their policy/manifesto/contract.

Yes the undesirables trouble me but I’m also troubled by policies from the other parties.

[Mrr T]

swisstoni said:

Nice to see you posting again. Been anywhere nice?

It is illegal to enter the country in the way the people on boats do.
But when they immediately claim asylum, a whole set of international asylum seeker laws are invoked.

The UK could technically refuse to offer asylum because they clearly haven’t claimed asylum at their first safe country.

But as the UK is a grown up G7 member, that’s not a good look and would get at least as messy as the current situation.

If I may correct you.

The international asylum laws you refer to are the UNCR and protocol, which the UK has signed and is incorporated into UK law.

Entering the UK without the normal papers if you are entitled to asylum is not illegal under UK law.

There is no first safe country rule, although travel though intermediate countries should be done as quickly as practicable. That UK case law.

Hope that helps.

[fido]

bhstewie said:

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

Same way you can vote for Labour even though it has harboured racists and anti-semites. Reform has a reasonably diverse set of candidates so unless you have the cognitive ability of Narinder Kaur it isn't a racist party.

Edited by fido on Wednesday 3rd July 12:26

[bitchstewie]

bad company said:

There’s no denying that a few undesirable people have been attracted to Reform. None of that is in their policy/manifesto/contract.

Yes the undesirables trouble me but I’m also troubled by policies from the other parties.

Yeah it's always just a "few undesirable people" isn't it.

Is that how you justify it to yourself?

Is migration or dislike of the Conservatives really that much of an issue to you that you're willing to endorse that sort of behaviour?

What's your personal tipping point where you'd accept it goes beyond a "few undesirable people" to a pattern of candidates having some absolutely gross views?

At some point surely it comes down to "I can't vote for people like this" doesn't it?

[President Merkin]

fido said:

Same way you can vote for Labour even though it has harboured racists and anti-semites.

This is a ludicrous false equivalence. I think you must either know this in which case you're posting in bad faith or you genuinely believe the two parties are equivalent in which case you aren't up to speed enough to involve yourself in the conversation. Neither is a very good look.

[captain_cynic]

bhstewie said:

We've had:

• Anti-Black racism
• Anti-Muslim racism
• Anti-Semitism
• Misogyny
• Homophobia

And now we're mocking disabled people.

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

Because that is exactly the kind of people Farage courts.

He knows exactly what he's doing, of all the unkind things we can say about Farage, idiot is not one of them.

His supporters, sure but not Farage.

He's deliberately going after the crowd that wants bigotry back whilst trying hard to claim he's not a bigot.

[Dave200]

bhstewie said:

bad company said:

There’s no denying that a few undesirable people have been attracted to Reform. None of that is in their policy/manifesto/contract.

Yes the undesirables trouble me but I’m also troubled by policies from the other parties.

Yeah it's always just a "few undesirable people" isn't it.

Is that how you justify it to yourself?

Is migration or dislike of the Conservatives really that much of an issue to you that you're willing to endorse that sort of behaviour?

What's your personal tipping point where you'd accept it goes beyond a "few undesirable people" to a pattern of candidates having some absolutely gross views?

At some point surely it comes down to "I can't vote for people like this" doesn't it?

We've already seen that he's willing to openly lie, so I wouldn't expect a straight answer on this one. It will probably be along the lines of "well yeah, but there are nasty people on all the parties", or something similarly disingenuous.

[fido]

President Merkin said:

This is a ludicrous false equivalence. I think you must either know this in which case you're posting in bad faith or you genuinely believe the two parties are equivalent in which case you aren't up to speed enough to involve yourself in the conversation. Neither is a very good look.

Well yes you are right Labour is actually worse as it was run by someone with those credentials, so desperate were they to get into power. It also has support of Islamists who Labour are now fighting over with Galloway's parrty. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/16/labour-activists-13-seats-party-muslim-voters-gaza)

Edited by fido on Wednesday 3rd July 12:31

[President Merkin]

fido said:

President Merkin said:

This is a ludicrous false equivalence. I think you must either know this in which case you're posting in bad faith or you genuinely believe the two parties are equivalent in which case you aren't up to speed enough to involve yourself in the conversation. Neither is a very good look.

Well yes you are right Labour is actually worse as it was run by someone with those credentials, so desperate were they to get into power.

Ah. Bad faith then.

[911hope]

bhstewie said:

We've had:

• Anti-Black racism
• Anti-Muslim racism
• Anti-Semitism
• Misogyny
• Homophobia

And now we're mocking disabled people.

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

It turns out that a disappointing proportion of the population share these appalling views.

Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.

[Dave200]

Mrr T said:

swisstoni said:

Nice to see you posting again. Been anywhere nice?

It is illegal to enter the country in the way the people on boats do.
But when they immediately claim asylum, a whole set of international asylum seeker laws are invoked.

The UK could technically refuse to offer asylum because they clearly haven’t claimed asylum at their first safe country.

But as the UK is a grown up G7 member, that’s not a good look and would get at least as messy as the current situation.

If I may correct you.

The international asylum laws you refer to are the UNCR and protocol, which the UK has signed and is incorporated into UK law.

Entering the UK without the normal papers if you are entitled to asylum is not illegal under UK law.

There is no first safe country rule, although travel though intermediate countries should be done as quickly as practicable. That UK case law.

Hope that helps.

It's mad how Reform voters seem so keen to invent laws that help them demonise the 2% of UK immigrants who arrive on small boats. It's almost like they've convinced themselves this is our biggest immigration problem, and are just force-fitting everything else around it.

[Elysium]

bhstewie said:

biggbn said:

bhstewie said:

And now we have this filth.

Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’

There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.

This is getting incredible, isn't it?

We've had:

• Anti-Black racism
• Anti-Muslim racism
• Anti-Semitism
• Misogyny
• Homophobia

And now we're mocking disabled people.

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

Because most of the issue is exaggerated hyperbole driven by people like you.

[Dave200]

Elysium said:

bhstewie said:

biggbn said:

bhstewie said:

And now we have this filth.

Reform UK candidate described autistic people as ‘vegetables’

There really is no gutter they won't crawl down into is there.

This is getting incredible, isn't it?

We've had:

• Anti-Black racism
• Anti-Muslim racism
• Anti-Semitism
• Misogyny
• Homophobia

And now we're mocking disabled people.

How can anyone say they're still considering voting for people with those views?

Because most of the issue is exaggerated hyperbole driven by people like you.

Ah, the old "just a few bad apples" defence.

[bad company]

911hope said:

It turns out that a disappointing proportion of the population share these appalling views.

Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.

Ah we’re back to Reform voters are all thick as mince. That’s a LOT of people you’re calling out.

[Zoon]

Dave200 said:

Ah, the old "just a few bad apples" defence.

Used by every political party since the dawn of time.

[bitchstewie]

911hope said:

It turns out that a disappointing proportion of the population share these appalling views.

Such people are easily influenced by simplistic messaging. They won't spot this impossible and contradictory pledges. They won't even work out that response to the dog whistle will bring about the election of the party they really don't want.

I'm really trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but it's very hard when you just see excuse after excuse followed by "I'll still vote for them though".

I think they know it'll bring about the election of the party they really don't want but they also really don't care.

They're basically arsonists who will set fire to the house just so nobody else can have it.

I'll also bet bad company won't address the points I've raised at least not in good faith.

Much easier to keep repeating the "few undesirable people" line than look really hard in the mirror and ask yourself why you're drawn to them.